(May 12, 2015 at 2:41 am)robvalue Wrote: Sure, I'm always happy to back up what I say with logic. What did I say that you find illogical?
The state of the world is a very complex thing. Some things get better, some get worse. To make an overall judgement, it really depends what weight you put on particular factors. I think general standard of living has gone up, but the amount of damage we're doing to the planet has also gone up. Overall I think we're a blight to the planet, but lucky for you guys that's not my call to make.
Sure, humans can be very greedy and power hungry. I don't think that's anything new, there's just more ways for people to exercise those qualities now. However, I think people in civilised countries are much more free to live their lives how they want without being overtly controlled, and society looks after its less fortunate members better. I'm not in any way saying things are perfect in either regard, far from it, but better I think than in even recent history.
Medical knowledge plays a huge part too. If I was born 100 years ago, I dread to think what would have happened to me. I have two chronic conditions, one of which can't be treated even now, plus depression. My life would be short and very painful, or slightly longer, very painful and I'd go insane.
Animal welfare still has a long way to go (and now Cameron wants to make it worse) but is still better than it has been, in many countries.
IMO, I don't believe that you are brash like some. Many make claims without feeling like any burden of proof is at all needed since they're among like minded friends. I read one post where the guy was asking 3 questions to christians and the 3rd was basically, "you know you're wrong right?" It just seems like many atheist believe that they can come from the presupposition that all of their claims must be true since they are logical evidence based people that always keep abreast of scientific consensus. Maybe that is true, but I just want to hear the logic, the evidence, and the scientific consensus. If you had an everyday Catholic, Protestant, Mormon, and one of Jehovah's Witnesses at your home and you had them explain their beliefs using reason and scriptural basis I guarantee you that 9 times of 10 the Witness would have more scriptural basis and logical reasoning for their belief. Now that doesn't mean much to you but the point is, I have deeply entrenched views and I'm not going disregard them just because someone says, "well, you know you're wrong right?"
I just cringe when I hear the spaghetti monster equivalency. For me it shows someones theological ignorance. And it is a deflection from the overall point usually. For whatever reason, over half the worlds population seems to believe in this god (muslims, christians, and jews) so there was something that got us here. Maybe it is simply just because of tradition and the one god that by chance made it big. I don't really know... So when people tell me, "what does it matter? I could claim that my pet dog told me 9/11 would happen a month before it did" Yeah of course, but if there is some kind of truth to that claim it would have to be explored? And if it is easily dismissed then it is easily dismissed. My bottom line is this, I don't need absolute certainty but I'm not going to let anyone convince me of something just because they said so
