Ask a Catholic

[Randy Carson]

All Christians are called to be mediators or intercessors for one another because we are all members of Christ’s body

This would only fortify my Jam 5:16 argument (I see what you mean by the context of that, but when it says “confess your sins to each other”, I can’t see that being taken any other way). The people wouldn’t need a catholic priest to be forgiven. They would confess to each other and their god.

Interceding for one another is one thing, but forgiving sins in the name of God is quite another.

I can ask God to heal you, to help you with a difficult work situation, or to show you that He is real, etc. That's intercession.
I can forgive you for something that you have done to me. That's forgiveness of a personal sin or affront.
But only God can forgive you of the offense against Him, and He has established the priesthood as the mechanism by which this occurs most typically.

However, CAN you confess directly to God? Absolutely, and you should. But to put a new twist on a common forum catch-phrase, extraordinary sins require an extraordinary means of grace.

Hebrews 7:24-25
because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. 25Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.

I’d say that this, again, would be another good verse for your typical, bible-believing christian, but not the catholics. Catholics believe, as you quote from catechism, that mary is the mediatrix. This means she is a mediator, which contradicts 1 Tim 2:5. Also, it says that she is an intercessor. Why do we need an intercessor? Isn’t the savior who died for us, enough? Jn 14:6 says Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. This sentence jesus says, completely destroys the idea that we need saints and mary to intercede for us. This is another example where the catholic church does something that the bible doesn’t quite concur with. This, also, eliminates the necessity of confessing to a catholic priest.

I provided all the verses and commentary that you need to follow the logic. We as Christians intercede before God on behalf of others. We are able to do this because of what Jesus has done. No Jesus, no access to God. But now, He allows us to share in His work through the prayers we offer on the behalf of others.

Maybe, after looking closer at the verses you have quoted, and the ones that I have quoted, you should see some problems with them not agreeing with each other. You should be able to see why there are 40,000 sects of christianity as well. There are plenty of cherries to pick from in scripture.

There are 40,000 "sects" because of private interpretation and sola scriptura. The Catholic Church is teaching the same doctrines it has for 2,000 years.

I'll come back to the rosary if necessary

It’s necessary, after what I have had to say about it. This is just one of many vain, repetitious prayers, that the bible forbids, and that the catholic church is known for. I would imagine, that you would say, that you don’t think that all these catholic prayers are vain, but many christians would disagree with you, for good reasons, some of which I mentioned already.

Okay. First, the rosary is a devotion. Not a doctrine or dogma.

Second, you mis-use the phrase "vain, repetitious prayers"...many non-Catholics believe that praying the rosary violates Jesus’ teaching about “vain repetition” found in His Sermon on the Mount:

“And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.” (Matthew 6:7-8)

Immediately after saying this, He went on to teach the crowd the following prayer:

Matthew 6:9-13
This, then, is how you should pray: 'Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us today our daily bread. Forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.'”

Jesus didn't say, "You might want to say something like the following"...he said, "When you pray, say" and He gave us precise words that we should pray daily for our daily bread, and these words have been repeated for 2,000 years. Is this "vain repetition"? Hardly.

Matthew 26:43-44
43When he came back, he again found them sleeping, because their eyes were heavy. 44So he left them and went away once more and prayed the third time, saying the same thing.

Jesus prayed a third time saying the same things he had said previously. Is this "vain repetition"? Hardly.

Revelation 4:8
Each of the four living creatures had six wings and was covered with eyes all around, even under his wings. Day and night they never stop saying: "Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty, who was, and is, and is to come."

The creatures keep saying the same thing over and over and over again - day and night. Is this "vain repetition"? Hardly.

So, "vain repetition" simply does not prohibit the repetition of words in our prayers.

In verse 25, the Greek heôs, “until,” does not necessarily contrast “before” to “after.” It means that up to a certain moment, something happened or not, without considering what happened after that moment. For example, the Greek text of the Septuagint says, in 2 Samuel 6:23, that “Mikal, daughter of Saul, had no children until (heôs) the days of her death.” This obviously does not suggest that she had children after her death. Matthew is interested in underlining that Jesus’ birth and conception were carried out without the intervention of any man.

Fair enough, but don’t you see a problem with god relating a message to someone, knowing that it won’t be translated correctly in the future? Or knowing some of the true ideas will never come to light, because later, the languages would become dead languages?

Now you see the problem of sola scriptura and the Protestant notion of private judgment. Jesus built a Church; he didn't write a book. The Catholic Church has never had a problem with misunderstanding what that word or verse meant.

Also, just some additional basic questions. Especially, with regards to Jn 14:6, why would an omnipotent god need a savior to forgive people? Why does the catholic church insist on intercessory prayers from mary and other saints, when jesus said that the father is only accessed through him? How does a man suffering for a few hours forgive everyone that has ever walked on this planet? There are stories of people getting tortured for much longer periods than that. They could say that they are doing it for you sins too, but that doesn't make it true, not to mention..moral. Why does an omnipotent god need angels? He can do anything he wants.

It's not the amount of time on the cross but the identity of the victim that makes Jesus' sacrifice unique.