Ask a Catholic

[Jenny A]

Well we share one thing in common, worry about Islam.  It's just that I worry about Christians and Mormons too.

Is there something about Mormons and genital mutilation that I should know about?

Is genital mutilation the only thing about Islam you worry about?  I haven't noticed any Mormon suicide bombers either.  But I have noticed that American Christians (at least fundamentalist and evangelicals) are become alarmingly anti secular and anti-science and the Mormons share these traits.

Two notes here.  First of all most scientist are atheists, but it doesn't follow that most atheists are scientists.  Second, no complex reasoning is required to comprehend that the god hypothesis remains woefully unsupported.  A basic understanding of how to weigh scientific and historical evidence dispassionately is all that's necessary.  

What scientific evidence would you weigh with regard to God, angels or demons?

The complete absence thereof. And yes I understand that lack of evidence for god is not proof he doesn't exist, but it sure is no reason to believe in him.  Though I've seen various Christians (not you, at least I don't remember your doing it) suggesting in the absence of complete human under of the origin of life or the universe there must be a god.  

Yes, well, this is the internet and we're often surrounded by the pious. This is a place to let our hair down so to speak. You may have noticed that there is more interest in such humor among those of us in the very Christian United States, than in more secular parts of the world. 

Also, you haven't appeared to have spent much time anywhere here but your own threads.  You might get out and about a little.  You see, it gets irritating after a while to have one Christian after another with the same tired arguments presenting them as if they would be news.  Your clones have been here before you.

Jenny, I might venture out but there are two problems:

1. I'm way outnumbered. Consequently, I can't join in too many threads because I would be swarmed.
2. rexbeccarox specifically warned me about not posting often enough...even in my own threads. She was threatening to ban me if I did not step up my game. I think this was a matter of public record and not by PM, btw.

Yes well you did jump in with both feet before looking around didn't you?  And yes, I understand you are outnumbered on this forum.  Given the title you'd expect that wouldn't you?  It's a new position for an American Christian, I'm sure, at least on this particular issue.  But it's one I face every day in the off-line world.  Don't bother with pity, I don't need or want it, but I am aware of your predicament.  The difference is that atheists are very unlikely to knock on your door for the purpose of converting you.  Mormans, JWs, and evangelicals knock on mine.  And you know, they are offended if I have a differing point of view.

No, not generally, although it's a growing movement.  And I wouldn't go so far as to call in lunacy.  I think it's unlikely, but considerably more likely than the divinity of Jesus.

Sorry, Jenny. When atheists like Bart Ehrman and the forum's own Tim O'Neill can be honest enough to admit that Jesus was a real person...and still be atheist...then yeah, the lunatic fringe has its work cut out for it.

And so did I, admit there was most likely a real Jesus.  But that doesn't make the divinity of Jesus more likely the mythical Jesus.   Which is all I said.

How many Jesus mythers have you counted here?

There are plenty of people who turn to god for all of the same reasons.  Campus crusades goes after them deliberately.  It's a good strategy.  But I don't think many atheists here are atheists because they are angry.  However, navigating the U.S. as an atheist certainly can make you angry.

Because Christians are so...well behaved? Family oriented? What? Never mind. I know those 10 Commandment plaques at the County Courthouse tie you up in knots.

Because Christians won't leave us the "insert the foul word of choice here" alone.   And yes I object to the 10 commandments being posted in schools or court houses.   Thou shalt have no other gods before me, keep the sabbath holy and not take the lords name in vain, have nothing to do with secular morality and should not be endorsed by the county court.

But yes, there are people who turn to God for all sorts of reasons. And He answers them in all sorts of ways. But those who turn away from God also get the answer they are looking for, don't they? How can they not? It's self-fulfilling.

Well, we do turn away for a variety of reasons.  But I've yet to see anyone really answered.  If you believe you will find a voice inside that is god you will.  It's self fulfilling.  

I have no interest in god's rules when I find them arbitrary or immoral---yes immoral, like discrimination against gays.  But I don't think many atheists are atheists so they can misbehave.  Compared to the rest of America, atheists divorce less: and are less likely to be in prison (just .07% of the incarcerated population even though we approach 10% of the U.S. population) It seems unlikely therefore, that people are becoming atheists to avoid morality.  But we do see morality differently than you.  Pornography, and *gasp* living together, per-marital sex, and contraceptives, aren't wrong.  

They are if God says they are. Which, of course, is why God must be done away with.

No, it's why we ignore your Bible as a moral guide.  Before I get as far as turning from god, I would need to both know he exists and think him qualified.  If he did exist there would be two possibilities:  1) what is moral is moral because god says so (the view of a despot); or 2) there is objective morality and god merely tells us what it is.  In the first place it's arbitrary and the second, god is unnecessary.  I look a god's actions as depicted in the Bible and declare him immoral by most human standards.  He is arbitrary; genocidal, blood thirsty, and needy.  

You've yet to take off your blinders.  You do not think logically on the subject of god, nor do you weight evidence rationally.  Your ability to compartmentalize is astounding.  Nor do you actually pay attention to much real evolutionary theory.  You're too busy refuting the evolution you have made up to look at what is actually there.

I've said surprisingly little about it, and I will withhold further comment until I've had a chance to read more.

It's the god hypothesis about which you wear blinders.  On the evolutionary question you misdescribe it over and over.  You do not understand it.

A think the phrase here is "new chew toy."

I recommend a good book on logic and one on historical method.  Choose neutral ones not interested in the god debate.  Then apply then to god and the Bible.

Well, my friends do accuse me of being like a dog with a bone at times. So, yeah, I'm pretty interested in learning what you have to say.

Google modern logic and text.  There are many many good ones and all much the same.  Historical method is a little more diverse.  Read several.