RE: What The Bible Really Teaches About Hell
December 1, 2008 at 11:02 am
(This post was last modified: December 1, 2008 at 11:34 am by Daystar.)
(December 1, 2008 at 6:04 am)Kyuuketsuki Wrote:(November 30, 2008 at 11:03 am)Daystar Wrote: We are all sinners ...
I'm not.
Kyu
The Hebrew word for sin is chattath and the Greek is hamartia, in verb form (chatta and hamartano) it means to miss, in the sense of missing a goal, way or mark. At Judges 20:16 chatta is used with a negative to describe the Benjamites who were 'slingers of stones to a hairbreadth and would not miss.' Greek writers often used hamartano referring to spearmen missing his target.
So sin means to miss the mark set by someone. If you are late for work you have sinned against your boss. If you miss your son's birthday party you have sinned against your son.
Given the definition of what sin is and what it means to sin, how is it that you are not a sinner?
(December 1, 2008 at 7:11 am)Darwinian Wrote: If we are all sinners then we were deliberately made that way and cannot accept any responsibility ourselves.
Gene Roddenberry said it best with..
"We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing all-powerful God, who creates faulty Humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes."
We were not deliberately made that way. To sin means to miss the mark, in this case set by God. Adam decided that he was the one to judge what is right and wrong rather than the creator and that not only was a stupid move but it also produced results other than death.
That rejection of God and his protection and guidence. Roddenberry's viewpoint was distorted by religious nonsense.
(December 1, 2008 at 7:37 am)Tiberius Wrote: Of course the argument against that is that we rebelled against God, it was our choice. The problem with this is that punishment for this rebellion is ridiculous, seeing as God gave us our freedom in the first place. If you give someone something and they use it against you, then the fault is at least joint, if not entirely yours.
There is more to it than that we rebelled and were punished. It was a simple thing. They had one regulation and they screwed it up.
Think about this. Adam was in charge, he was given charge over all the earth, animals and his wife. The angel later known as Satan was put in charge of protecting the Garden. Paradise was a small portion of Earth that God had prepared for them, and outside of that small area the earth was knew and uninhabitable.
The angel later known as Satan deceived Eve, but since Adam had been put in charge there is the possibility that he could have stopped it. Adam, on the other hand - who, I remind you had been put in charge of Earth under the angel's protection - was not deceived. He knew better and could have stopped it.
He chose to reject God and rise above him in judging what was right and what was wrong.
Now a very important thing to consider is that all of the spirit creatures in heaven are watching this all unfold. They are thinking is it possible that man knows better than God what is right or wrong? Would it not be fair to give them the opportunity to do so?
A great deal of what the Bible skeptic perceives as being evil punishment from God is actually more a result of them pushing him out of the picture. Adam chose - that is what the Bible says whether you see the Bible as fable or truth. If, though, it is truth, you continue to do the same as Adam before you, so sin is not so hard to see and believe once you know what it is.
(December 1, 2008 at 9:18 am)Darwinian Wrote: And the argument against that is that God knew exactly what would happen before he created anything but he still went ahead with his creation anyway. Therefore, knowing what the outcome would be he must hold sole responsibility.
After all, you wouldn't test a new alarm system in a busy airport if you knew that the result would be a stampede with hundreds of people crushed to death would you. And if you did you couldn't then blame people for panicking!
That is the thing. There is no scriptural support that God knew what would happen before he created anything, and in fact, to me it doesn't even make sense to think that the did.