(September 22, 2015 at 9:03 am)Huggy74 Wrote:(September 22, 2015 at 8:21 am)SofaKingHigh Wrote: Whether or not he exists, you and many like you base your entire lives around him. Which kind of IS the point.....especially since the dude makes Stalin look like a rank amateur in terms of mass genocide and general, all around cuntishness.
No, the point is YOU providing an example of any religious figure with a body count bigger than Stalin. Obviously you don't believe God exist so using him as an example is just asinine, since when did what others believe become factor instead of evidence? Or do you abandon the idea of having to provide evidence when it's convenient?
BUT If you want to insist that God has a bigger body count than Stalin you're going to have to provide the evidence, according to your own criteria.
His "body count" is not what you've been told it is. I am not justifying even one of those murders in the name of state power, but the meme of "Joseph Stalin is the worst killer in history" largely comes from wild guesses made during the Cold War.
Before the 1991 dissolution of the Soviet Union, researchers who attempted to count the number of people killed under Stalin's regime produced estimates ranging from 3 to 60 million. After the Soviet Union dissolved, evidence from the Soviet archives also became available, containing official records of 799,455 executions (1921–1953), around 1.7 million deaths in the Gulag and some 390,000 deaths during kulak forced resettlement – with a total of about 2.9 million officially recorded victims in these categories.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Sta...of_victims
Secondly, you've still not demonstrated that their murders were done in the name of atheism. Simply saying that churches were outright suppressed and that priests were killed does not mean it was done because of atheism; if a priest spoke out against the Leninist powers-that-be, they were killed to shut them up. This was true for non-priests, as well. If an atheist spoke out against the Leninists, they too would be killed. But not because of their atheism.
By using Lenin and Stalin's psychopathic purges of anyone who stood in the way of their control and unification of the Soviet Empire as a bludgeon with which to hit atheism, you are ignoring the real reasons it was done.
No one is arguing that the Soviet Communists were anti-religion, that they closed down churches and killed anyone who spoke out or otherwise stood in their way (and that a lot of Christians/Clergy stood in their way based on their faith, thus making them targets). But that still does not mean atheism was why those people were murdered.
TL;dr version: The body count isn't as bad as you're claiming, and they weren't killed because of Stalin's atheism but because he killed anyone he felt challenged his empire-building efforts to gain unchecked power.
A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.