(September 30, 2015 at 11:00 pm)lkingpinl Wrote:(September 30, 2015 at 10:48 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote: Irrelevant; see above.
I don't think its irrelevant. The kidney example, while I understand the point, is not the same in my opinion. We don't know the circumstances and intent in that scenario. We are talking the basics of human reproduction that everyone knows. When you have consensual sex you go in to it knowing that a possible result is a pregnancy. It is my personal opinion that you are willing to give up those rights to bodily autonomy knowing that the sexual encounter may result in the conception of a human being. It may not be the intention but you certainly know it's a possibility.
Again, though I would like to understand why people feel its ok to abort in the first trimester but not in the third. Baby is still in utero and still living off the mothers resources. Is it the heartbeat (as early as 18 days)? Is it because the baby moves (as early as 4 weeks)? Because there is brain activity (10 weeks)?
Then let's assign circumstances and intent in that scenario. Let's make it as bad as possible-- far, far worse than the degree of culpability of simply following our sexual insticts, or experiencing a failure in our birth control..
Let's eliminate gender from the equation, so I'll use you and me as examples.
Let's eliminate benefit of the doubt, and say that you did a truly amoral, immoral thing to me, and caused my kidneys to shut down. I, a fully grown adult, am lying there with my kidneys destroyed because you thought it was funny to swap antifreeze for my cough medicine. (Or whatever.) And now, here you are in jail for attempted murder, soon to be fully murder, and I'm lying in the hospital bed, slowly fading. You, it turns out, happen to have two healthy kidneys, and you are my only matching donor.
Without one of your kidneys I will certainly die. Do we have the legal right to invade your body, take a kidney, and put it into me? Why or why not?
A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.