(September 30, 2015 at 11:07 pm)TheRocketSurgeon Wrote:(September 30, 2015 at 11:00 pm)lkingpinl Wrote: I don't think its irrelevant. The kidney example, while I understand the point, is not the same in my opinion. We don't know the circumstances and intent in that scenario. We are talking the basics of human reproduction that everyone knows. When you have consensual sex you go in to it knowing that a possible result is a pregnancy. It is my personal opinion that you are willing to give up those rights to bodily autonomy knowing that the sexual encounter may result in the conception of a human being. It may not be the intention but you certainly know it's a possibility.
Again, though I would like to understand why people feel its ok to abort in the first trimester but not in the third. Baby is still in utero and still living off the mothers resources. Is it the heartbeat (as early as 18 days)? Is it because the baby moves (as early as 4 weeks)? Because there is brain activity (10 weeks)?
Then let's assign circumstances and intent in that scenario. Let's make it as bad as possible-- far, far worse than the degree of culpability of simply following our sexual insticts, or experiencing a failure in our birth control..
Let's eliminate gender from the equation, so I'll use you and me as examples.
Let's eliminate benefit of the doubt, and say that you did a truly amoral, immoral thing to me, and caused my kidneys to shut down. I, a fully grown adult, am lying there with my kidneys destroyed because you thought it was funny to swap antifreeze for my cough medicine. (Or whatever.) And now, here you are in jail for attempted murder, soon to be fully murder, and I'm lying in the hospital bed, slowly fading. You, it turns out, happen to have two healthy kidneys, and you are my only matching donor.
Without one of your kidneys I will certainly die. Do we have the legal right to invade your body, take a kidney, and put it into me? Why or why not?
Ok, but again this is not the same thing. Pregnancy in most cases is not life threatening to the mother or child. Most cases, it's pretty straightforward process. Plus, I've already said I don't think abortion should be illegal, because I do believe that scenarios exist where it is justified and/or necessary. I'm also of the belief that no one should tell a woman what she should do with her body. I'm trying to show that this choice doesn't just affect her body, but the body of the one living inside of her that is there of a choice she made herself. And I've already stated my concern for the father's rights as well to that child and some of you have echoed your own disappointment in such a situation, but still respect the woman's choice. That's fine.
I'm trying to understand in what scenarios people feel it is ok to terminate a pregnancy and why is it different at different stages? If you can terminate in week 4, but not in week 30, why? And if you argue you can terminate in week 30, why not a minute after birth? If you decide you don't want the child, what's wrong with terminating at any stage? Look I understand this isn't a light discussion and each case may be unique, so if we are going in circles, we can just leave it alone and move on
We are not made happy by what we acquire but by what we appreciate.