Objectifying women

[Eilonnwy]

I'm not going to bring up rape again, the argument has been beaten to death with fundamental differences too great to bring the discussion to a satisfying conclusion without emotions running high. I know I've gone off the handle a little bit myself, because I am passionate about the subject. Ultimately, I don't think anyone here hates women, and I'm going to leave it at that.

Dotard, you want to discuss the original topic of this thread so I will address that only as best I can.

When I made my original comment about "objectifying women" in the Miss USA thread way back when, it was a flippant comment directed more at certain attitudes about women in society, and not an attempt to judge the woman or people who enjoy these forms of entertainment.

Scented Nectar made an excellent point about feminism. There are certain attitudes within the feminist movement which are counterproductive to the ideal of feminism, which is equality. There is a faction within the feminist movement which defines feminism as choice. I, personally, agree with Choice Feminism, which essentially says that woman have the choice to be who they want. They can be a homemaker or a successful business woman. They can be a super model or a teacher. By trying to stifle the expression of woman in certain professions that in the past have been seen as negative or oppressive, only serves to continue to restrict women and shame them for doing something, only in a different way.

Now, I've brought up privilege before, I know some disagree with the notion of privilege, and there are some fundamental debates on certain privileges, but I think most of us can recognize that woman have been treated as property in the past and they had to fight for their right to vote, to dress provocatively, etc... Most of us have heard that if a man is caught sleeping around, he's congratulated. If a woman is caught sleeping around, she is a slut. These thoughts are pervasive of society, and both men and woman are guilty of doing the same thing.

I've been studying privilege lately, learning about privileges I do have and privileges I don't have. What's most revealing to me is when I look at the privileges I don't have, and realized that I thought such things were acceptable, and in someway would perpetuate the privilege myself. I'll give an example.

Here is a male privilege checklist. Please make sure you read the introduction which states important points, such as, suggesting these privileges in no way means men have an easy life and do not suffer from their own set of disadvantages. (I.e. the draft) Anyway, agree or disagree with some of the points made here, I think we can all at least recognize some of the classic attitudes towards woman that may favor men, regardless or whether there are reverse attitudes towards men. One such attitude:

10. If I have children but do not provide primary care for them, my masculinity will not be called into question.

12. If I have children and a career, no one will think I’m selfish for not staying at home.

13. If I seek political office, my relationship with my children, or who I hire to take care of them, will probably not be scrutinized by the press.

I've done this. When Sarah Palin was nominated for VP, and it was revealed she just had a child, I had the attitude that she should be home with her child. It doesn't matter that her husband could care for it, we are ingrained with the idea that a child needs a mother, and that if a mother works while raising a child, it's called into question, but of course a father works and raises a child. Now, I dislike Sarah Palin, but I try to do so now on the basis of the ideologies she espouses that I fundamentally disagree with. I no longer concern myself with whether she can raise her son. That doesn't matter.

Now, to bring this back to objectifying women, there is another staple of attitudes toward women. Namely:

25. I do not have to worry about the message my wardrobe sends about my sexual availability or my gender conformity.

It's hard for me to appropriately explain my feelings on this point, because it's very emotionally driven. It has taking me a long time to feel comfortable with my body and as such I do like to wear certain clothing to show off what I like about it. I do it because I love the female body, and I like feeling comfortable with myself. I do love the attention I may get, but there have been occasions when me just having fun has been interpreted as "let's have sex", which can be a very uncomfortable situation. (On a side note, I'm not even talking about rape. There are many situations where sexual advances can be uncomfortable and a problem, but do not enter into the arena of rape, and that's what I'm focusing on here) Sometimes I wish I could wear what I want and not worry about sexual advances of some men, because I'm not interested. My flashy top is me having fun, and sure, you can look, but that doesn't mean you can touch. And I guess that would be the crux of the problem, for me. My problem about objectifying woman is not so much the idea of enjoying a woman's body as it's on display, but the behavior that it accompanies with some (note: not all) men (Hey and even some women) that it's an invitation to make sexual advances.