(March 29, 2019 at 8:56 am)robvalue Wrote: Can I just rant:
Things look so different now to back when I put in my vote to remain. I’ve learnt a whole lot, and things are far less clear cut than I thought.
The sheer audacity of the government has astounded me. Even though I "lost" in the vote, I expect the winning side to be upheld.
As it was a non-binding referendum, you shouldn't really expect that.
You should expect only that such a result would be taken into account.
(March 29, 2019 at 8:56 am)robvalue Wrote: That has systematically not been done. The MPs voting "no deal" off the table was, in my opinion, voting to mostly ignore the referendum result.
No... voting "no deal" off the table was a way to prevent the most disastrous outcome imaginable. I think that's why you vote to have people representing you. They should be the ones who know or are aware of the repercussions of particular decisions and decide on the best for the country.... operative word, here, "should".
(March 29, 2019 at 8:56 am)robvalue Wrote: There was no mention of deals in the disastrously poorly run referendum choices, and I’d wager most people who voted to leave wanted to do so without being still tied to the EU.
True, no mention of how the exit was going to be... that's why so many would like to have a second referendum, this time one that clarifies that part.
(March 29, 2019 at 8:56 am)robvalue Wrote: Having done that, now today they are voting on whether to uphold their own promise to deliver Brexit today, deal or no deal. They don’t have a deal currently, and it’s either incompetence or sabotage to be holding a final vote on the final day. The result should be to leave with no deal. My research indicates this deal they are voting on will, in effect, make us subservient to the EU; it's the worst possible outcome for the actual people of Britain. This deal pleases no one. Remain voters don’t want this, nor do most leave voters. The people who want this are the ones at the top.
The people who want this deal are trying to uphold the result of the referendum (which, as you pointed out, had no mention of any deal), while providing the smoothest possible exit, disrupting as little as possible both the UK and the EU.
(March 29, 2019 at 8:56 am)robvalue Wrote: So fuck this horse shit. Unfortunately, there is no cause of action which is ideal and the clear best option. Like I said, I think this deal is awful and a clear attempt to stay under EU control while technically leaving it. The fact that our "government" would want that for us shows how much they care about our interests. So that leaves remaining, or leaving with no deal. The former will be chaotic, no one can really say how it will work out. The latter, however sensible it appears on the surface, is ultimately an awful future for us in my opinion. Check out article 11 and 13 for the kind of organisation we're dealing with.
Why would remaining be chaotic? It would be just a continuation of the status quo. Is the UK in chaos, as it is?
I'd say that the uncertainty concerning the future is making it more and more chaotic, yes, but that's hardly the fault of it being in the EU.
(March 29, 2019 at 8:56 am)robvalue Wrote: Both sides ran dirty campaigns filled with lies. Both sides had hidden agendas. But on reflection, I think the leave side were more honest and more interested in discussing actual issues and facts. I now understand the validity of many things they said, even though they may not have framed them very well. Of course they had to play dirty, because the remain campaign were doing the same. Well, they didn’t have to, but they’d have lost if they didn’t. I don’t support anyone playing dirty, of course.
Yes, both played dirty. Some dirtier than others... perhaps the winning ones can be said to have been dirtier by omitting the difficulty that was going to be the actual exit?
(March 29, 2019 at 8:56 am)robvalue Wrote: So on balance, I think the vote today is the final piece of either an incompetent mess or calculated sabotage, and I’m leaning towards the latter. They should do what they promised, and leave today; if no deal has been properly agreed by this stage then that’s too bad. They’ve had forever to fucking sort it out. This flurry of activity at the last moment stinks of foul play.
If no-deal leads to a sharp decline in the UK's GDP, as was announced by the Bank of England a few months ago, how do you think that will affect you? Your family? Your friends? The services upon which you rely? Healthcare?