Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: May 30, 2024, 2:26 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 1 Vote(s) - 5 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Creationism
#34
RE: Creationism
(September 13, 2010 at 7:05 pm)Liu Bei mixed with Leondias Wrote: I like to say we are having nice talk(THEVOID).

Agreeed.

Quote:Ok so I think that it is reasonable to believe in religion because I know its impossible to dis/prove the gods. I can believe my self to believe that there is no afterlife. The reason I believe in my gods(or theogony as you put it) is because:
1.The creation story makes sense.

This is just personal credulity.

Firstly, just because something makes sense does not mean it is true, there are many concepts that make sense logically that are not believed by anyone to represent the existence of actual objects in reality, therefore this argument cannot be used as an indication of the truth of the proposition and thus is insufficient in forming rational belief.

Quote:2.Polythiesism makes more sense than Monothiesm.

How so? And like i said above, the fact that something makes sense does not mean it is true.

Also, the key question is not "does polytheism make more sense than monotheism" but "is polytheism more likely to be true than either Monotheism or non-theism" and to establish this you need a higher standard of evidence than simply assessing how much "sense" it makes to an individual.

Quote:3.That I have a belief that I can feel the gods. But not in a personal sense.

Ok, so what is this 'feeling' that you are attributing to Gods?

Do you have any evidence that this feeling was caused by a God? Is it logically necessary that a God caused this feeling?

If neither of the above are true then you have no good reason for holding this belief.

Quote:4.Moral standards are geneuine(i.e. doesn't promote slavery)

I agree that they are too, objective morality is achievable in Desire Utilitarianism (my preferred meta-ethical theory) without resulting to Gods or "intrinsic values" as objective standards though, so to claim that objective standards necessitate god's existence is once again fallacious.

Quote:5.No dogma.

This is not in any way related to the truth of a proposition. If Dogmatic God existed then Dogma would be expected. Since you have not shown that a dogmatic God does not exist, using the absence of Dogma as an argument for your theism qualifies as a bare assertion fallacy.

Quote:
Quote:"A religion could have permissible moral standards and still be false because the God does not exist - this simply means that the individuals who constructed the religion had good morals."

Yeah but then if you are wrong atleast you believed in something that had good morals and was possible.

If you believe that God is all good? As in the problem of evil? I agree that a god that is all-good is something that is contrary to reality. But this is not an argument for your theism, which is what i am waiting to see still.

Quote:
Quote:"There is no reason to believe religious claims, especially those pertaining to the existence of God. "
Yes there is, because you can't disprove it either.

Do you not see how flawed this reasoning is? Belief should be justified, there should be a positive case for the existence of such a being such as evidence indicating their existence or logical necessity for the existence. If one is justified in belief simply because something has not be disproved then i challenge you to disprove the Flying Spaghetti Monster, and if you cannot then by your own standards you should believe it to be true - Of course you don't however, and this just shows that you have a double standard, the argument that it cannot be disproved applies equally to both cases, yet you would not use the argument to attempt to justify a theology that is not your own.

Quote:
Quote:"You mean that we need to judge the veracity of each religious separately? I disagree, any theistic religions (that posit God) can be rejected due to a lack of reason for their existence, be it evidential or through logical necessity."


I think so because every religion has differant applications and may have a good arguement. But if they didn't have any logic then well....

But absolutely none of the arguments can demonstrate that a God or Gods necessarily exist, and if that cannot be done then the internal arguments based on that assumption are irrelevant. In other words if God(s) cannot be rationally believed to exist then every belief system based on that assumption also cannot be rationally believed to be true as the assumption of God in the arguments would be a bare-assertion fallacy.

Do you see what i'm getting at? Without first establishing the existence of God as a rational belief to hold, all subsequent beliefs are irrational.

I notice you still haven't provided any arguments for your theism specifically...
.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Creationism - by Liu Bei mixed with Leondias - September 11, 2010 at 7:22 pm
RE: Creationism - by Minimalist - September 11, 2010 at 7:35 pm
RE: Creationism - by DeistPaladin - September 11, 2010 at 9:00 pm
RE: Creationism - by padraic - September 17, 2011 at 7:54 pm
RE: Creationism - by Liu Bei mixed with Leondias - September 11, 2010 at 8:16 pm
RE: Creationism - by Liu Bei mixed with Leondias - September 11, 2010 at 9:02 pm
RE: Creationism - by Minimalist - September 11, 2010 at 10:28 pm
RE: Creationism - by MilesTailsPrower - September 18, 2011 at 1:23 am
RE: Creationism - by theVOID - September 12, 2010 at 6:10 pm
RE: Creationism - by Tiberius - September 11, 2010 at 9:04 pm
RE: Creationism - by Liu Bei mixed with Leondias - September 11, 2010 at 9:21 pm
RE: Creationism - by Liu Bei mixed with Leondias - September 11, 2010 at 10:47 pm
RE: Creationism - by Zen Badger - September 12, 2010 at 2:44 am
RE: Creationism - by Liu Bei mixed with Leondias - September 12, 2010 at 5:09 am
RE: Creationism - by Zen Badger - September 12, 2010 at 5:29 am
RE: Creationism - by KichigaiNeko - September 12, 2010 at 8:49 am
RE: Creationism - by Liu Bei mixed with Leondias - September 12, 2010 at 5:14 pm
RE: Creationism - by Liu Bei mixed with Leondias - September 12, 2010 at 6:44 pm
RE: Creationism - by Entropist - September 12, 2010 at 6:56 pm
RE: Creationism - by theVOID - September 12, 2010 at 7:22 pm
RE: Creationism - by Liu Bei mixed with Leondias - September 12, 2010 at 9:42 pm
RE: Creationism - by theVOID - September 12, 2010 at 9:47 pm
RE: Creationism - by Liu Bei mixed with Leondias - September 12, 2010 at 9:52 pm
RE: Creationism - by theVOID - September 12, 2010 at 9:54 pm
RE: Creationism - by Liu Bei mixed with Leondias - September 12, 2010 at 9:59 pm
RE: Creationism - by theVOID - September 12, 2010 at 10:26 pm
RE: Creationism - by Liu Bei mixed with Leondias - September 12, 2010 at 10:45 pm
RE: Creationism - by theVOID - September 12, 2010 at 11:00 pm
RE: Creationism - by Liu Bei mixed with Leondias - September 12, 2010 at 11:29 pm
RE: Creationism - by theVOID - September 12, 2010 at 11:46 pm
RE: Creationism - by Paul the Human - September 13, 2010 at 10:58 am
RE: Creationism - by Liu Bei mixed with Leondias - September 13, 2010 at 11:14 am
RE: Creationism - by theVOID - September 13, 2010 at 5:27 pm
RE: Creationism - by Liu Bei mixed with Leondias - September 13, 2010 at 7:05 pm
RE: Creationism - by theVOID - September 19, 2010 at 9:09 pm
RE: Creationism - by Liu Bei mixed with Leondias - September 19, 2010 at 8:46 pm
RE: Creationism - by Liu Bei mixed with Leondias - September 21, 2010 at 11:11 am
RE: Creationism - by theVOID - September 21, 2010 at 5:16 pm
RE: Creationism - by Liu Bei mixed with Leondias - September 22, 2010 at 11:01 pm
RE: Creationism - by theVOID - September 23, 2010 at 7:11 pm
RE: Creationism - by jason56 - September 23, 2010 at 8:25 pm
RE: Creationism - by theVOID - September 24, 2010 at 1:02 pm
RE: Creationism - by Liu Bei mixed with Leondias - September 17, 2011 at 6:30 pm
RE: Creationism - by Zen Badger - September 18, 2011 at 6:16 am
RE: Creationism - by The Grand Nudger - September 17, 2011 at 7:34 pm
RE: Creationism - by Epimethean - September 17, 2011 at 7:42 pm
RE: Creationism - by The Grand Nudger - September 17, 2011 at 7:58 pm
RE: Creationism - by Epimethean - September 17, 2011 at 8:15 pm
RE: Creationism - by KichigaiNeko - September 18, 2011 at 5:48 am
RE: Creationism - by padraic - September 17, 2011 at 8:17 pm
RE: Creationism - by Liu Bei mixed with Leondias - September 17, 2011 at 10:23 pm
RE: Creationism - by downbeatplumb - September 18, 2011 at 10:16 am
RE: Creationism - by Epimethean - September 18, 2011 at 10:20 am
RE: Creationism - by downbeatplumb - September 18, 2011 at 10:25 am
RE: Creationism - by padraic - September 18, 2011 at 7:40 pm
RE: Creationism - by Liu Bei mixed with Leondias - September 18, 2011 at 11:55 pm
RE: Creationism - by IATIA - September 19, 2011 at 12:09 am
RE: Creationism - by Liu Bei mixed with Leondias - September 19, 2011 at 12:23 am
RE: Creationism - by IATIA - September 19, 2011 at 12:43 am
RE: Creationism - by Liu Bei mixed with Leondias - September 20, 2011 at 12:46 am
RE: Creationism - by downbeatplumb - September 20, 2011 at 1:49 pm
RE: Creationism - by frankiej - September 19, 2011 at 3:28 pm
RE: Creationism - by downbeatplumb - September 19, 2011 at 3:30 pm
RE: Creationism - by The Grand Nudger - September 18, 2011 at 10:42 pm
RE: Creationism - by downbeatplumb - September 19, 2011 at 3:18 pm
RE: Creationism - by The Grand Nudger - September 19, 2011 at 4:20 pm
RE: Creationism - by ElDinero - September 19, 2011 at 5:49 pm
RE: Creationism - by Epimethean - September 19, 2011 at 10:15 pm
RE: Creationism - by Rokcet Scientist - September 19, 2011 at 10:53 pm
RE: Creationism - by Epimethean - September 19, 2011 at 11:19 pm
RE: Creationism - by Rokcet Scientist - September 20, 2011 at 2:09 am
RE: Creationism - by Epimethean - September 20, 2011 at 12:55 am
RE: Creationism - by fr0d0 - September 20, 2011 at 3:35 am
RE: Creationism - by Epimethean - September 20, 2011 at 8:20 am
RE: Creationism - by frankiej - September 20, 2011 at 8:22 am
RE: Creationism - by Epimethean - September 20, 2011 at 8:25 am
RE: Creationism - by frankiej - September 20, 2011 at 8:26 am
RE: Creationism - by Epimethean - September 20, 2011 at 8:35 am

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Creationism Foxaèr 203 11979 August 23, 2020 at 2:25 am
Last Post: GrandizerII
  A theory about Creationism leaders Lucanus 24 7253 October 17, 2017 at 8:51 pm
Last Post: brewer
  Science Vs. The Forces of Creationism ScienceAf 15 3013 August 30, 2016 at 12:04 am
Last Post: Arkilogue
  Defending Young-Earth Creationism Scientifically JonDarbyXIII 42 10719 January 14, 2015 at 4:07 am
Last Post: Jacob(smooth)
  creationism belief makes you a sicko.. profanity alert for you sensitive girly men heathendegenerate 4 2053 May 7, 2014 at 12:00 am
Last Post: heathendegenerate
  Creationism in UK Schools Chuff 10 5595 August 3, 2012 at 9:50 am
Last Post: KichigaiNeko
  Foundational Falsehood of Creationism Gooders1002 10 7545 May 23, 2012 at 5:37 pm
Last Post: The Heff
  Lewis Black on creationism orogenicman 7 3847 April 14, 2012 at 9:04 am
Last Post: fuckass365
  The Opie and Anthony Show Tackles Creationism darkblight 0 1400 May 30, 2011 at 11:11 pm
Last Post: darkblight
  Young Earth Creationism Vs. Science (Statler Waldorf Contd) Sam 358 269224 March 3, 2011 at 2:07 pm
Last Post: Anomalocaris



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)