Fundamental Arrogance in Christianity

[ukatheist]

I'm genuinely mystified by what you've written here.  I've been a Christian for 36 years, and a serious one, of sorts, for the last 20, and much of what you've said that Christians believe is completely foreign to me.  In re-reading it, I think I can make some tenuous connection to it, but it's been so twisted and re-stated to make Christians seem far more arrogant and militant than they or their beliefs would actually make them in reality.

Hi!

First, yes, it is reasonable to have faith. 

Faith = belief based on spiritual conviction, rather than proof, or in other words feelsies rather than evidence. Is it reasonable for me to have faith in leprechauns? To base laws on what I think will please the little green fellas?

Second, yes, you are morally obliged to put your faith in God.  However, your moral obligation is not to me and not to the Christian religion.  Your moral obligation is to God, and Him alone.  Everyone is morally obliged to obey their Creator.  In fact, if the God of the Bible actually exists, then this would seem to be a pretty uncontroversial claim, would it not?

Now hang on a second, everyone is morally obliged to obey their creator? Based on who's morality? The xtian god's? Allah? Buddha? Odin? What if your 'creator' ordered you to murder or rape?

You owe us (i.e. Christians), absolutely nothing, in terms of belief.  Any obligation you have is owed specifically to God, not to me, Christians, or the Christian religion.  It is impossible, by way of the human will, to fulfill our moral obligations to God, which is why every single human being is considered to be a sinner, in the context of a Christian understanding of human nature and the fall of mankind. 

So, your God set up his creation to fail. Nice guy, definitely a good moral example.

This is specifically why God has provided a way of escape through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, which paid for the sins of all mankind and is efficacious to those who accept this free gift. 

If a 'gift' has strings attached, it's not free. And why does your God have to go through such a convoluted method of granting escape from sin, which as you said before, he made it impossible to avoid in the first place?

If you reject this free gift and decide to make restitution for your crimes against God yourself, then yes, you will do so in a place and state of suffering for all eternity.  Eternal punish is the only kind of punishment adequate for a finite creature to pay restitution to an infinite God. 

So, if you don't accept the 'free' gift of escaping the sin which your god made it impossible to avoid, you are punished for eternity. Yep, great moral example.

Just tangentially, this is not that unusual, apart from the expanded time-scales that we often have a hard time grasping, but we do this kind of thing all the time in our own punishment systems.  We punish people for their entire lives for acts which often took them mere seconds to carry out.  And sometimes, depending on the country, we even take their lives, based on the heinous nature of their crimes.  And keep in mind, that this is punishment for a single crime often times. 

Only, it isn't only about punishment, it is also about rehabilitation and societal protection too. But...we don't punish people for crimes committed by their great, great, great etc grandfather now do we?

In the case of your being punished by God, we're likely talking about hundreds of thousands or even multiple millions of crimes that you've committed each and every day of your life.  I know I would certainly be guilty of crimes in the millions.  The longer I live, the more aware I am of just how much I fall short of God's standard, and that's taking into account that I see myself far less clearly than God does.

No, not crimes, sins. Things which according to your holy book are offensive to God. Like wearing mixed fabric or eating shellfish.

I can only apologize for your experience in some kind of church.  It bears little or no resemblance to what I know of as Christianity.  I would suggest that you've experienced only a narrow slice of an expression of Christianity, and I'm not sure how much veracity to put into that particular expression.  It seems rather far from anything in my experience.

Try spending a little time reading around the forum, you'll see just how common it is.

I agree, Christians must be ready to provide reasons for belief.  I think the existence of a supreme mind or intelligence is obvious from what exists.  I also think that the existence of such a being is the best explanation for the beginning of the Universe and its contents.  I also think that the existence of God is the only way to ground true objective morality, which I firmly believe is a rock-solid feature of the world, regardless of our various levels of understanding and wisdom in application.  I also think that God's existence is the best explanation for the Bible and the basic historical narrative of the life of Jesus of Nazareth, including his resurrection from the dead. 

Based on what?

I think good solid arguments can be constructed for all of these things and more, and that believing in the God of the Bible is far more reasonable and rational than the extant alternatives, especially if we're talking about materialism/naturalism.

Please, do share!

I hope your anger subsides over time, and that you'll eventually have different experiences with Christians that will not leave you so hurt and hostile.  Be well.

We shall see !