Disproving Odin - An Experiment in arguing with a theist with Theist logic

[polymath257]

Look into Bell's inequalities. It turns out that any causal system has to obey certain laws of correlation simply because it is a causal system.

The universe has been observed not to obey those laws, so it is not causal.

It does seem that QM often like evolution, can be used as an answer for everything. A quick look at Bell's theorem, shows, a couple of things.  First, that it only claims to rule out local variables.  Second, that it's implications are still disputed.

So what are we saying, if there is not reason; at the quantum level?  Would you agree, that the things at the quantum level, are the foundation for what is classical mechanics and what we see?   If one is saying that there is not reasons at this level, then wouldn't that be magnified and we see nothing but chaos the more this is multiplied out.  I'm not an expert in QM by no means.  But it seems that often, there is a difference in vocabulary, that is between the technical and the everyday use of terms.  I don't see a description as indeterminate as meaning that it is without cause or without reason.  That we can make certain predictions, because they do follow a general path, that there can be a study of them, because there is reason behind it.

Note:  This is only some random thoughts and speculation:  But I wonder if some of the "mysteries" of QM may be explained, because a continuum is per-supposed (with all the ending / nonending sequences) where at the very small point of view the effects of moving through with minimal base units may be seen.

There are some obvious points here:

1) What is your definition of the term 'cause'? Specifically, how do we determine if some event is caused or not?

2) Having probabilities determined does not imply a cause. For example, suppose we have a completely random coin (no cause for whether we get a heads or a tails for each flip). We *still* get predictability in the probabilities: in fact, we have the prediction that, on average, there will be half heads and half tails. So, it appears your concept of 'complete chaos' requires some more thought. Random events can still have determined probabilities. This is ultimately the bridge between the quantum and the classical worlds. There are so many atoms in any macroscopic sample that the averages determine the overall behavior.

3) You seem to conflate a 'reason' with a 'cause'. Those are two very different concepts, at least as far as I can see.

4) In regard to Bell's inequalities, like I said, the only way out is a form of super-determinism. The implications are disputed only in the question of whether such super-determinism is a reasonable out.

5) Local hidden variables are required if we want to preserve causes as being in the past. A non-local theory would have faster-than-light causes, which forces causes to be in the future in some reference frames.