RE: The Watchmaker: my fav argument
March 9, 2021 at 9:46 am
(This post was last modified: March 9, 2021 at 9:57 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(March 9, 2021 at 9:42 am)Klorophyll Wrote:Here in the US, we tend to deal with murder harshly no matter how many lollipops a given murderer hands out, and even if there are people who really like his lollipops and think he's a swell guy, and even if he murdered a murderer or two between killing children.(March 9, 2021 at 9:33 am)The Grand Nudger Wrote: You may not be able to say as much, but I can, with no need for omniscience. If I murder you and then give you a lollipop, that doesn't change the fact that I murdered you.
I am fine with being given a lollipop for eternity whereas the murderer rots in hell for the same amount of time......
You?
Quote:I don't have to "handle" the problem of evil with you. Professional philosophers did and resolved it quite convincingly.Perhaps you should share their wisdom with our christian friend, he's struggling.
Quote:I am not sure what your definition of competence is, can you elaborate ? It's true that evil is not a problem for an evil god. But you're kind of begging the question, you have to first prove that it is evil, that is, that no good can ever come out of it. Also, you should take free will into account.I don't have to prove a damned thing. It was a proposal from our christian friend. An evil and incompetent god. Perhaps you should ask him? Take free will into account? My having (or not having) free will doesn't have anything to do with whether or not my neighbor is competent, so I'm guessing our free will and any gods competence are likewise separate. Similarly, any acts moral nature and that acts practical outcome are not the same. A moustache twirling villain ties a virgin to the tracks. The train stops to avoid hitting her just before it would have derailed on a blind turn at full speed. Good intentions, bad intentions, best laid plans, all that jazz.
Frankly, this is a better analog for god than any designer. A bumbling idiot committed to doing shitty things that somehow fucks that up and leads to much better ends by way of divine accident and hard human work.
(March 9, 2021 at 9:44 am)John 6IX Breezy Wrote:(March 9, 2021 at 8:31 am)Belacqua Wrote: I think the word "perfect" can probably be applied in two ways. If we talk about "a perfect circle," it means that the example we have in mind meets exactly a precise definition. But if we say "a perfect cup of coffee," we mean that it has the all qualities we like in coffee and none of those we don't. The first usage can't be debated. But the second is based on desire, and if someone disagrees we have no objective grounds for argument.
Right; I think the second example is the best: Perfection would mean "everything as intended."
Is this world what god intended, then? We could modify the proposal to competent evil, if you'd like.
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