Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: April 27, 2024, 8:58 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Do Chairs Exist?
#86
RE: Do Chairs Exist?
(September 24, 2021 at 6:26 pm)DLJ Wrote:
(September 23, 2021 at 9:06 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: Why?

I didn't realise that anyone took the idea of universal-forms-out-there-somewhere seriously.

Shows what I know.

I don't, really. At least, not exactly how Plato articulated them. 

I find Plato enjoyable to read, so I've probably given the idea more consideration than most. You gotta factor that in as well. He's an excellent writer who really likes to get his reader considering his positions. For that reason alone, he's a great philosopher. Way more about engaging his readers' intellects than he is about convincing them of his positions.

When a modern reader contemplates Plato's forms, it's never about accepting his entire theory as presented. Instead it's about discovering if there are things that are universally true and immutable. Do such things exist? 

It's not too hard to find examples of universally true things if you start thinking about it. For instance, you can come up with immutable "eternal" truths about Euclidean space. For right triangles you can say, if angle A and B equal x, then angle C must equal y. This is an immutable truth about Euclidean space, and very much something Plato would consider a truth gleaned from an understanding of a form.

Above the entranceway to Plato's Academy stood a sign which read, "Let no man enter who is ignorant of geometry." Plato prized mathematics and thought it was key to understanding the universe. I think Plato would be quite pleased to see that we have an enterprise called "science" in which we use mathematics to describe everything in nature. Plato would look at the various equations we use to understand physics and say, "this equation expresses a fundamental truth..."

Now many scientists will point out that no equation we have today explains nature fundamentally. Even Einsteins equations (as good as they are) are ultimately inaccurate. Afterall, they can't describe the physics within a singularity of a black hole. A scientist might want to say that we never arrive at universal Platonic forms, and dismiss the idea for that reason. But even Plato understood that we cannot have perfect knowledge. 

Merely by saying "one theory is better than another" or "this theory is more true than that theory" we are invoking Plato's forms to some degree. It means that there is some kind of metaphysical thing called "truth" or "accuracy" which we perceive via our rational intellects that guides the process of science and allows us to distinguish good theories from bad ones. That is the main thrust of what Plato put forth. And I think there's something to it.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
Do Chairs Exist? - by vulcanlogician - September 15, 2021 at 12:26 am
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by Foxaèr - September 15, 2021 at 12:56 am
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by vulcanlogician - September 15, 2021 at 1:00 am
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by Foxaèr - September 15, 2021 at 1:05 am
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by vulcanlogician - September 15, 2021 at 1:20 am
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by Foxaèr - September 15, 2021 at 1:29 am
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by Peebo-Thuhlu - September 15, 2021 at 2:18 am
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - September 15, 2021 at 4:13 am
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by Deesse23 - September 15, 2021 at 8:25 am
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by brewer - September 15, 2021 at 11:09 am
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by Angrboda - September 15, 2021 at 11:17 am
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by brewer - September 15, 2021 at 11:20 am
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by vulcanlogician - September 16, 2021 at 8:08 pm
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by Angrboda - September 16, 2021 at 8:11 pm
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by vulcanlogician - September 16, 2021 at 8:23 pm
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by Neo-Scholastic - September 17, 2021 at 10:41 am
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by vulcanlogician - September 20, 2021 at 8:39 pm
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by Neo-Scholastic - September 21, 2021 at 9:42 pm
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by vulcanlogician - September 23, 2021 at 12:40 pm
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by Brian37 - September 23, 2021 at 3:50 pm
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - September 23, 2021 at 5:12 pm
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by Brian37 - September 23, 2021 at 5:24 pm
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - September 23, 2021 at 5:28 pm
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by Brian37 - September 23, 2021 at 5:44 pm
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - September 23, 2021 at 6:27 pm
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by Brian37 - September 23, 2021 at 6:44 pm
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - September 23, 2021 at 7:02 pm
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by DLJ - September 23, 2021 at 8:47 pm
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by vulcanlogician - September 23, 2021 at 9:06 pm
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by DLJ - September 24, 2021 at 6:26 pm
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by vulcanlogician - September 25, 2021 at 4:28 pm
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by DLJ - September 25, 2021 at 5:15 pm
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by vulcanlogician - September 25, 2021 at 7:53 pm
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - September 17, 2021 at 10:55 am
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by Angrboda - September 17, 2021 at 11:19 am
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - September 17, 2021 at 11:50 am
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by Angrboda - September 17, 2021 at 11:52 am
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - September 17, 2021 at 11:54 am
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by vulcanlogician - September 20, 2021 at 8:58 pm
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by Neo-Scholastic - September 17, 2021 at 3:21 pm
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by vulcanlogician - September 16, 2021 at 6:55 pm
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by brewer - September 16, 2021 at 9:41 pm
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - September 15, 2021 at 11:22 am
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by Brian37 - September 16, 2021 at 7:10 pm
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - September 16, 2021 at 7:26 pm
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by arewethereyet - September 16, 2021 at 7:27 pm
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by arewethereyet - September 16, 2021 at 7:14 pm
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by Brian37 - September 16, 2021 at 7:39 pm
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by Ranjr - September 16, 2021 at 8:00 pm
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by arewethereyet - September 16, 2021 at 8:33 pm
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by vulcanlogician - September 16, 2021 at 8:42 pm
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by arewethereyet - September 16, 2021 at 8:54 pm
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by Ranjr - September 16, 2021 at 9:08 pm
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by vulcanlogician - September 16, 2021 at 9:42 pm
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by brewer - September 17, 2021 at 10:41 am
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by Neo-Scholastic - September 17, 2021 at 8:16 am
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by Ranjr - September 17, 2021 at 10:21 am
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by arewethereyet - September 17, 2021 at 11:59 am
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by Angrboda - September 17, 2021 at 2:47 pm
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - September 17, 2021 at 3:12 pm
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by arewethereyet - September 17, 2021 at 3:38 pm
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by purplepurpose - September 17, 2021 at 12:25 pm
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by Angrboda - September 17, 2021 at 3:24 pm
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - September 17, 2021 at 3:59 pm
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by Ranjr - September 17, 2021 at 6:53 pm
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by Neo-Scholastic - September 17, 2021 at 9:43 pm
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by Jehanne - September 20, 2021 at 8:52 pm
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by Brian37 - September 21, 2021 at 10:41 pm
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by Angrboda - September 23, 2021 at 5:14 pm
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - September 23, 2021 at 5:23 pm
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by vulcanlogician - September 23, 2021 at 5:35 pm
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - September 23, 2021 at 5:43 pm
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by vulcanlogician - September 23, 2021 at 5:57 pm
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by Brian37 - September 23, 2021 at 7:07 pm
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - September 23, 2021 at 7:13 pm
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by Angrboda - September 23, 2021 at 5:54 pm
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by Brian37 - September 23, 2021 at 6:20 pm
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by Angrboda - September 24, 2021 at 11:46 am
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by vulcanlogician - September 23, 2021 at 6:40 pm
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by UniverseCaptain - September 23, 2021 at 7:21 pm
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by Angrboda - September 23, 2021 at 7:28 pm
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by Foxaèr - September 23, 2021 at 9:44 pm
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by Angrboda - September 23, 2021 at 11:29 pm
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by Foxaèr - September 23, 2021 at 11:58 pm
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by Angrboda - September 24, 2021 at 12:01 am
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by Foxaèr - September 24, 2021 at 12:20 am
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by Angrboda - September 24, 2021 at 12:55 am
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by Foxaèr - September 24, 2021 at 12:56 am
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by The Grand Nudger - September 26, 2021 at 4:07 am
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by vulcanlogician - September 26, 2021 at 5:40 am
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - September 26, 2021 at 6:21 am
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by The Grand Nudger - September 27, 2021 at 10:20 am
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by vulcanlogician - September 27, 2021 at 3:59 pm
RE: Do Chairs Exist? - by vulcanlogician - September 29, 2021 at 11:41 am

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  Does a natural "god" maybe exist? Skeptic201 19 1671 November 27, 2022 at 7:46 am
Last Post: BrianSoddingBoru4
  does evil exist? Quill01 51 3597 November 15, 2022 at 5:30 am
Last Post: h4ym4n
  If Aliens Exist, Where Are They? Severan 21 5167 July 14, 2017 at 2:17 pm
Last Post: Minimalist
  Why free will probably does not exist, and why we should stop treating people - WisdomOfTheTrees 22 4548 February 8, 2017 at 7:43 pm
Last Post: WisdomOfTheTrees
  Is the self all that can be known to exist? Excited Penguin 132 15130 December 15, 2016 at 7:32 pm
Last Post: Tonus
  Existence must exist at all times. Edwardo Piet 41 8674 November 28, 2016 at 6:46 pm
Last Post: Edwardo Piet
  Proof Mind is Fundamental and Matter Doesn't Exist Rational AKD 348 79870 October 22, 2015 at 6:34 pm
Last Post: bennyboy
  Does a "True Self" Exist? Salacious B. Crumb 68 14341 July 17, 2015 at 6:11 am
Last Post: chasbanner
  Logic tells me God doesn't exist but my heart says otherwise. Mystic 81 17525 October 17, 2014 at 10:23 am
Last Post: Whateverist
  Do Numbers Exist? MindForgedManacle 18 4254 January 6, 2014 at 9:00 am
Last Post: houseofcantor



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)