Can America ever truly pay for its sins?

[The Grand Nudger]

It depends on how they say it and to whom. Children and college students are more impressionable than older adults for example. Any objective facts can be presented in a manner that pushes an agenda.

When you say it depends, you're talking about it being appropriate..depending.  Americans are not appropriate.  I'm just telling you that yes, it's very very american to give people shit for their faults, more so if you care for them than if you don't. 

I don't tease other peoples friends and sisters, know what I mean?  
 

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CRT for example is just not an objective or even fair take on history or current events. It's more ideology than facts. For instance, it makes the false assumption that any disparity in outcome is proof of discrimination. Individual choices or other circumstances don't seem to be factored in. Intersectionality is purely ideological to me, I don't believe you can lump all these different groups (blacks, trans, women, atheists) together and somehow assume their issues are similar.

CRT is extremely myopic in its analysis of let's say encounters between cops and black suspects. Take for example the George Floyd case. It's clear that the cop Derek Chauvin used excessive force and that cops in the US seem to be poorly trained to handle a suspect going through some kind of drug crisis. But there's no proof that he was motivated by hatred of black people. Advocates of CRT don't consider that maybe Chauvin has an inherently violent personality or that he simply lost patience with a difficult suspect. That wouldn't be a good excuse, but it would show he wasn't racist.

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You don't know what CRT is.  There, that's done.  There's no point in arguing about it - its not an actual issue.  You just know that it's media noise you're supposed to object to.  Who's ideology do you think you're consuming when you do so?  

Hint, starts with a w, ends in ist.

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To state or imply that Floyd was killed for being black (and by that extension if you're black, you might be next if you don't do something about it) is grossly irresponsible, not backed up by evidence any more than any religion is, and has sparked riots that actually got other black people killed. Floyd himself is not entirely blameless in the matter, he'd been in trouble with the law before, he got himself heavily intoxicated in public to the point where I'm not even sure his grip on reality was still there (you can see him in the video acting like a crazy person), he failed to follow lawful police instructions. Put yourself in his shoes (you can be black for the sake of argument) and realize that if you simply did what the cops told you, Derek Chauvin wouldn't even be present. Oh that's right, he was not the officer first responding to the scene, he only came after the previous officers failed to control him.

That's not to excuse Derek's poor judgment but I do say it to argue that it's extremely unlikely a regular black person would have been killed in this circumstance.

This is what many in the woke media do all the time, take a story, put a spin on it to weave a narrative of widespread racism that just isn't supported by the evidence and in fact is actually quite implausible when there are more likely explanations.

I also wanted to point out that you can have legit racist cops treating black suspects fairly. It all depends what they value more. Maybe some cops value their duty more than their racism. Thoughts don't always translate into behavior. This is why it's silly to try to equate all police brutality with racism.

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Straight to floyd.  Whose song do you think you're marching to, as you extoll what you see as the problems of a nonexistent radical left in the us vis a vis these culture war hot buttons?  

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Well, the question I'd have is if there are any truly empty lands left in the world apart from maybe Antarctica or some remote island nobody cares about?

Pretty much everything of value has been claimed in some form or another. Even those empty lands in the US actually have some rangers overseeing them, there is satellite coverage, powerlines, police responds if it's ever necessary, like if you get lost there. It doesn't seem to be quite as empty anymore.

Either way, it's impractical to revert to what existed pre-US. The closest thing to justice would be having a libertarian-like system with low taxes so no faction feels like they're forced to follow rules they never agreed with unless the non-aggression principle is violated.

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By the 1600's?  No, we were all pretty well dispersed at that point.  Lowering taxes for the rich would further privilege the exploitative class - and do nothing to either disadvantaged communities or the working white poor.  We know, we've tried. Things don't trickle down. You wanna help people change their circumstances permanently? Give them money. Cash money. Works every time. Turns out that poor people are better informed about what they need and what they can do, and make more responsible decisions with that money, than some suburban mom or dad 1k miles away concerned about The Blacks using up all the government cheese in the Antifa run city of Detroit. Works for foreign aid too, strangely. Libertarianism means something different in other countries, I'm told.  Here, it was the racist vote before you could just say you were racist and that was acceptable.  An early test bubble for economic anxiety.

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Slave owners probably had a lot of money back in the day, but no, such wealth wouldn't survive to 2021 without effort, especially given the number of heirs, it would be very fragmented and people had way more children back then. An estate like that needs to be maintained else it crumbles to dust. Leave any property uninhabited for a few years with no maintenance, you're not going to be able to live in it. Land needs to be worked to have any utility, crops don't grow by themselves. Money needs to be re-invested into a profitable asset (like a good business) else it loses its value through inflation. This is how wealthy families are no longer wealthy after several generations. And very few white people actually had slaveholding relatives anyway. Lots came to the US with nothing to their name, do they still have this white privilege thing?

A slave could have earned some money and passed it down to his son or daughter so they wouldn't have to start from scratch. Or built a "shack" for them but keep in mind that shacks don't last a lifetime. If you can't maintain those properties they become worthless sooner or later.

Or (as is the case with many people of all races) he could have spent it all during his lifetime, leaving nothing for his descendants.

Or he may have had so many descendants it all got fragmented to the point it didn't matter.

Never rely on your parents for wealth or income. Build it yourself. And even if you get a lot, assume it's going to be lost very soon unless you invest it well.

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Most slave owners were poor. By the end, people had slaves like we have consumer goods. Poor men had yet poorer slaves. That was the value of a mans life. Funnily, the system wasn't actually good for anyone. Slaves couldn't earn money, build or pass down anything of their own.  That's not how slavery works. Freed men, in our history, didn't have that option either. Sure, officially, but not in mere reality.

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Discrimination. The white man is being reverse racism-d
Rights abrogation. The white mans rights and protections are being eroded, his wealth transferred to non whites.
Stigmatization and the denial of pride. The country is being slandered.
Loss of self esteem. The white man is being villainized.
Racial Elimination. The white man is being breed out.

This sounds a lot like moving the goalpost.

White supremacy just means someone believes whites are better than everyone else, nothing more.

Believing that there is discrimination against whites is not white supremacy and the CRT proponents have a demonstrable bias against white people. You cannot genuinely say you're for equality and tolerance but then turn around and say things like:
- "racism against whites doesn't exist because whites are privileged" (as if this was relevant)
- "Whiteness is bad" (how would we react if people were saying Blackness or Jewishness is bad? you would think the article was written by a Nazi if you replaced "white" with "Jew")
- "the c-word isn't as bad as the n-word" (why?)
- "check your privilege, white people"

I'm actually sympathetic to a world where people just ignore race altogether and focus on common values and individual merit which is why CRT looks like such a bad joke to me. In fact, it's self-refuting. If you want people of different races to get along they have to follow the same standard, you can't have overt racism being tolerated just because it comes from a group that is oppressed or perceived as oppressed.

I could say the same thing about the other 4 points, those points could be valid or invalid, but they don't necessarily involve white supremacy. Some white supremacists bring them up, but so do plenty of people who aren't.

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I'm telling you what contemporary white supremacy in the united states is, what it's organized around, how it sells itself.  You can go research it yourself if you like..but, if you think it's "moving the goalposts"..well, huzzah, you figured it out.  White supremacy was a fading brand that very successfully reinvigorated itself by changing it's propagandistic appeals. It;s not recent work, either, they spun this up back in the 90s and immediately knew they'd hit gold. As they had always contended, more americans than would vote for "white supremacy" on a ticket spelled just like that absolutely do vote on the basis of a belief about white subjugation or genocide. Additionally, as it's a fundamentally liberal appeal it simultaneously trolls the libs and resonates with people who cannot possibly believe that they, themselves, are in an active dissemenators position..and yet they are. Probably shouldn't have written them off as yokels and hicks - that helps them blindside people who think they're too smart or antithetically aligned to buy in.

Something to consider, when you consider your positions as stated - If I were you I'd look into getting my info elsewhere - elsewhere with respect to wherever the hell you've been getting it from. I lose alot of people here, and it's a shame, I'm only speaking from experience. Back in the day when I was full on in the tank for the folk if I heard someone opining the way you'd have I'd know that I had a sympathetic ear even if they didn't know it. That much of the work was already done. Basic information asymmetry. A person that accepts the pillars of white supremacy but does not consider themselves a white supremacist doesn't need to be convinced of the truth of white supremacy - they already believe it, or believe at least a part of it. They are merely waiting to be activated. To be given something to do about it. Most people never get past voting on it - but that's a pretty huge achievement even if you never quite convince them to take up arms for the future of their race. In my experience, the race soldiers come pre-made. The rest of the normies are either leaners or hard no's. Some will some wont so what.

This is what drives institutional racism, the thing crt concerns itself with as a graduate level field of study in law and sociology, for what it's worth. Not how a country of hood wearing klansmen effect a white supremacist nation..that needs no explanation - but how a country chock full of people who either publicly or genuinely detest white supremacy can, somehow, end up with a country that looks no different than the one built by the guys in hoods. A country like mine. A country I love. A country that needs to be improved because it's loved. If no one gave a shit, we could keep on being a garbage fire until the end of days. Bit like teasing someone else's sister.

The short version is this. If you sound like an episode of tucker, you're a fuckin racist. If you don't want to be, then you're faced with the same essential question that buy in leaners are... what are you gonna do about it? There's no universe in which any of those five pillars are true, and no..Other People™ don't believe in them. Just out and out racists and fence sitting racists in training. Hell..Even I realized they were bullshit before I stopped using them. So, there you go, that's what you're up against. Your entire post clearly informed by a particular ideology with which you would deny any particular involvement. OFC..I used to tell people I wasn't a nazi too..and it was true, I suppose.