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RE: What the #$*! Do We (K)now!?
May 9, 2009 at 12:07 pm
There is of course a link between quantum mechanic and consciousness, but it is the same kind of link that consciousness has with atoms. In other words, both are part of the natural world, ergo there is a connection.
What the film tried to say was that you could "think" at water and make it change the pattern it takes when you freeze it, or you could record your thoughts onto a device which could then be read. They use the excuse "quantum mechanics" to explain for this bullshit, hence why the physicist in question was trying to dispel rumours of it. If they do find a connection that makes any kind of sense, I am sure scientific journals will be the first to hear about it.
As for how we got onto God, this is an atheist forum. As the thread gets larger, the probability of the conversation being about God tends to 1.
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RE: What the #$*! Do We (K)now!?
May 9, 2009 at 12:42 pm
(This post was last modified: May 9, 2009 at 12:42 pm by g-mark.)
I agree, some parts of the documentary are apparently unplausible. But, there are studies being done and evidence is building.
It is understood by many than quantum biology (QB) will have its place in the future.
- Penrose, R.(1989) The Emperor's New Mind Oxford University Press
- Grush, R. & Churchland, P. (1995) "Gap's in Penrose's Toilings," Journal of Consciousness Studies,
- Penrose, R.(1994) Shadows of the Mind Oxford University Press
- Tegmark, M. (2000) "Importance of quantum coherence in brain processes," Physical Reviews E,
- Hagan, S., Hameroff, S. & Tuszynski, J.(2002) "Quantum computation in brain microtubules? Decoherence and biological feasibility," Physical Reviews.
- Hameroff, S. (2006) "Consciousness, neurobiology and quantum mechanics," In: The Emerging Physics of Consciousness, (Ed.) Tuszynski, J.
To name a few.
Time will tell.
None of this information relates to god within the context of this particular subject, but im sure you could probably make a connection some how. Don't ask me how?
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RE: What the #$*! Do We (K)now!?
May 10, 2009 at 5:11 am
The film, it's an absolute joke; as I've said before mark, waving your hands and saying "quantum mechanics" is not a proof.
(May 9, 2009 at 12:42 pm)g-mark Wrote: It is understood by many than quantum biology (QB) will have its place in the future.
I'm not so sure.
At the temperature the human brain operates (~300K) I'm pretty sure thermal noise would be far to great to successfully acheive quantum computation, therefore I find it unlikely that is the operation mechanism of the brain.
Galileo was a man of science oppressed by the irrational and superstitious. Today, he is used by the irrational and superstitious who claim they are being oppressed by science - Mark Crislip
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RE: What the #$*! Do We (K)now!?
May 10, 2009 at 10:01 pm
(This post was last modified: May 11, 2009 at 4:35 am by g-mark.)
You are entitled to your opinion.
Quantum Biology is a dicipline that hopes to connect Quantum physics and the Life sciences. Although the brain is a macroscopic system, the fundamental processes operate on an atomic level.
The opearation of the brain concerns neurons (brain cells) connected with synaptic connections via the synaptic cleft. Synapses can be chemical or electrical in nature. Neurons use the chemical and electrical synapses in a process known as synaptic transmission. The fundamental process that triggers synaptic transmission is the action potential, a propagating electrical signal that is generated by exploiting the electrically excitable membrane of the neuron. This is also known as a wave of depolarization.
Phil, when you have a degree in either biology, psychology, or (edit) physics and you have written a paper that has been peer reviewed, I will consider your opinion as valid.
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RE: What the #$*! Do We (K)now!?
May 11, 2009 at 4:27 am
(May 10, 2009 at 10:01 pm)g-mark Wrote: Quantum Biology is a dicipline that hopes to connect Quantum physics and the Life sciences. Although the brain is a macroscopic system, the fundamental processes operate on an atomic level. Yes of course, but quantum computation is only possible at low temperature, it relies on putting electrons in certain states (with known quantum numbers n, l, ml and ms) and them staying there (or having a high probability of doing so)
At the temperature of the brain the Fermi-Dirac distribution has a reasonable probablility above the Fermi energy and hence there is a chance for an electron to be thermally excited to a higher energy level (higher n, ml changing by +/- 1 or 0)
in this case the system become decoherent, unless there's a way of stopping this, quantum computation in the brain wouldn't work (I'm not saying that it's impossible, just that on the available evidence it seems unlikely)
(May 10, 2009 at 10:01 pm)g-mark Wrote: The opearation of the brain concerns neurons (brain cells) connected with synaptic connections via the synaptic cleft. Synapses can be chemical or electrical in nature. Neurons use the chemical and electrical synapses in a process known as synaptic transmission. The fundamental process that triggers synaptic transmission is the action potential, a propagating electrical signal that is generated by exploiting the electrically excitable membrane of the neuron. This is also known as a wave of depolarization. This is a classical wave, not related to a quantum mechanical wavefunction (of course the individual electrons forming the current obey QM but the macroscopic wave can be treated classically, much like a current pulse in a wire)
(May 10, 2009 at 10:01 pm)g-mark Wrote: Phil, when you have a degree in either biology, psychology, or quantum physics and you have written a paper that has been peer reviewed, I will consider your opinion as valid.
As far as I'm aware degrees just in quantum physics aren't available. You wouldn't really understand it without knowing classical physics as well.
But in 2 years (or maybe 1 if I decide to do BSc and take masters elsewhere) I will have a degree in physics.
Yourself?
Galileo was a man of science oppressed by the irrational and superstitious. Today, he is used by the irrational and superstitious who claim they are being oppressed by science - Mark Crislip
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RE: What the #$*! Do We (K)now!?
May 11, 2009 at 4:34 am
(This post was last modified: May 11, 2009 at 4:38 am by g-mark.)
I could say anything, but no I don't have a degree yet. It won't be in science either, it will be in humanities, maybe philosophy. But concentrating on making money at the moment.
They say money makes the world go around.
Science was my forte once, but I have drifted away from it.
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RE: What the #$*! Do We (K)now!?
May 11, 2009 at 4:38 am
(May 11, 2009 at 4:34 am)g-mark Wrote: I could say anything, but no I don't have a degree yet. And it won't be in science either. It will be in humanities, maybe philosophy. But concentrating on making money at the moment.
I appreciate your honesty.
Galileo was a man of science oppressed by the irrational and superstitious. Today, he is used by the irrational and superstitious who claim they are being oppressed by science - Mark Crislip
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RE: What the #$*! Do We (K)now!?
May 11, 2009 at 4:44 am
(May 11, 2009 at 4:34 am)g-mark Wrote: They say money makes the world go around.
Money doesn't have enough mass to do that. I think the Moon and the Sun have a larger impact on it. 
Best regards,
Leo van Miert
Horsepower is how hard you hit the wall --Torque is how far you take the wall with you
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RE: What the #$*! Do We (K)now!?
May 11, 2009 at 5:01 am
(May 11, 2009 at 4:44 am)leo-rcc Wrote: Money doesn't have enough mass to do that. I think the Moon and the Sun have a larger impact on it.
Galileo was a man of science oppressed by the irrational and superstitious. Today, he is used by the irrational and superstitious who claim they are being oppressed by science - Mark Crislip
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RE: What the #$*! Do We (K)now!?
May 11, 2009 at 7:47 am
haha ha HA. Ha!  Good one hehe.
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