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RE: Zero Point Energy: ?
May 9, 2009 at 3:06 pm
(May 9, 2009 at 2:17 pm)g-mark Wrote: lilphil Wrote:Scalar field theory defines a scalar potential as the vacuum virtual particle flux (I believe, correct me if I'm wrong)
You are wrong. fair enough
(May 9, 2009 at 2:17 pm)g-mark Wrote: Scalar field theory applies a scalar value to every point in space OK
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(May 9, 2009 at 2:17 pm)g-mark Wrote: lilphil Wrote:The burden of proof is on you, if you're suggesting that it would be observed, since you are making a claim that every almost every physicist in the world would disagree with.
wiki Wrote:No fundamental scalar fields have been observed in nature, though the Higgs boson may yet prove the first example. However, scalar fields certainly do appear in the effective field theory descriptions of many physical phenomena.
wiki Wrote:In physics, an effective field theory is an approximate theory (usually a quantum field theory) that includes appropriate degrees of freedom to describe physical phenomena occurring at a chosen length scale, while ignoring substructure and degrees of freedom at shorter distances (or, equivalently, at higher energies).
wiki Wrote:The Higgs boson (nicknamed the God particle) is a massive scalar elementary particle predicted to exist by the Standard Model in particle physics. At present there are no known fundamental scalar particles in nature.
And once the world was flat and my balls are made from brass. One day you may also eat your words.
Again, relevance?
We are not discussing the existence or otherwise of the higgs boson.
It's existence offers no support to what you are proposing, which seems to be that there is a "background" energy scalar field i.e. that points in space can be ascribed energy values other than the energy of the atom, electron etc at that point.
And that somehow this energy can be drawn as a power source and not be depleted.
If I'm mistaken about what you believe, please lay it out clearly for me.
And you posted those wiki quotes as a response to my request for evidence.
you have offered no proof.
Give me a link to a peer-reviewed paper that describes the effects I described.
Galileo was a man of science oppressed by the irrational and superstitious. Today, he is used by the irrational and superstitious who claim they are being oppressed by science - Mark Crislip
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RE: Zero Point Energy: ?
May 9, 2009 at 3:16 pm
I love having someone on the forums who knows physics. Makes things much easier for the rest of us when someone starts spouting pseudoscience of this form.
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RE: Zero Point Energy: ?
May 9, 2009 at 3:37 pm
Glad to be of service  *bows and swishes cloak in a cloak-waering-fantasy-film-hero kind of way* (not that I'm actually wearing a cloak... I almost bought one at Living History last year though...)
Oh and mark:
g-mark Wrote:And once the world was flat and my balls are made from brass. One day you may also eat your words.
Someone on the forums had this as a sig (can't remember who) and it's totally relevant here:
As a scientist it's just as exciting to be proven wrong as right.
Provide a good mathematical description of your "theory" as well as peer-reviewed evidence and I'll be more than happy to look at it 
Galileo was a man of science oppressed by the irrational and superstitious. Today, he is used by the irrational and superstitious who claim they are being oppressed by science - Mark Crislip
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RE: Zero Point Energy: ?
May 10, 2009 at 12:36 am
(This post was last modified: May 10, 2009 at 12:48 am by g-mark.)
lil Wrote:And once the world was flat and my balls are made from brass. One day you may also eat your words.
Someone on the forums had this as a sig (can't remember who) and it's totally relevant here:
We will see.
lil Wrote:As a scientist it's just as exciting to be proven wrong as right.
True.
lil Wrote:Relevance?
Indicates a 'possibility' of such particles actually existing. As it cannot be proven or disproven, the debate is open to interpretation.
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RE: Zero Point Energy: ?
May 10, 2009 at 2:59 am
(This post was last modified: May 10, 2009 at 3:04 am by lilphil1989.)
(May 10, 2009 at 12:36 am)g-mark Wrote: lil Wrote:Relevance?
Indicates a 'possibility' of such particles actually existing.
What particles? Are you suggesting that your scalar field has an associated particle that is a non-vector boson? What properties would this particle exhibit?
Perhaps I've misunderstood what it is you're proposing. Please detail it clearly and we'll go from there.
(May 10, 2009 at 12:36 am)g-mark Wrote: As it cannot be proven or disproven, the debate is open to interpretation.
This is not what science is about. It's not about conclusive proof, it's about coming to a conclusion based on all the available evidence. All evidence available suggests that the law of conservation of energy is always obeyed, and as such there can be no undepletable "background" energy.
My challenge stands:
Provide a mathematical description - mathematics is the language of physics, this is a reasonable request
And peer-reviewed evidence - This is vital for the advancement of science, without it any crackpot loon could say anything and call it science (not that I'm suggesting you're a loon of course, but you get my point I hope)
Galileo was a man of science oppressed by the irrational and superstitious. Today, he is used by the irrational and superstitious who claim they are being oppressed by science - Mark Crislip
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RE: Zero Point Energy: ?
May 10, 2009 at 11:50 pm
lili Wrote:What particles? Are you suggesting that your scalar field has an associated particle that is a non-vector boson? What properties would this particle exhibit?
Perhaps I've misunderstood what it is you're proposing. Please detail it clearly and we'll go from there.
Maybe similar properties to dark matter. That is none that our current technology can identify.
The Law of Conservation sates that energy in an isolated system remains constant. A consequence of this law is that energy cannot be created or destroyed. Therfore, we can assume that the energy is always there.
'always' is a big statement.
What happens in a black hole?
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RE: Zero Point Energy: ?
May 11, 2009 at 4:34 am
(May 10, 2009 at 11:50 pm)g-mark Wrote: lili Wrote:What particles? Are you suggesting that your scalar field has an associated particle that is a non-vector boson? What properties would this particle exhibit?
Perhaps I've misunderstood what it is you're proposing. Please detail it clearly and we'll go from there.
Maybe similar properties to dark matter. That is none that our current technology can identify. I'll ask again, are you suggesting that your scalar energy field has associated a non-vector boson?
(May 10, 2009 at 11:50 pm)g-mark Wrote: What happens in a black hole?
If you're suggesting black holes violate conservation of energy, I suggest you go pick up a good undergraduate astrophysics textbook.
I'll repeat my challenge to you, and will continue to do so until you respond to it:
Provide a mathematical description of your theory along with peer-reviewed evidence.
Galileo was a man of science oppressed by the irrational and superstitious. Today, he is used by the irrational and superstitious who claim they are being oppressed by science - Mark Crislip
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RE: Zero Point Energy: ?
May 11, 2009 at 4:48 am
(This post was last modified: May 11, 2009 at 4:49 am by g-mark.)
You know very I can't, because there isn't one in circulation. But it was worth a crack.
How can one determine what happens in a black hole?
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RE: Zero Point Energy: ?
May 11, 2009 at 5:25 am
(May 11, 2009 at 4:48 am)g-mark Wrote: How can one determine what happens in a black hole?
There is no "inside" of a black hole, really.
It's just a large ball of degenerate matter.
Beyond the event horizon, we don't know what happens, although there's no reason to believe that the matter beyond the event horizon behaves any differently to what it would in any othere situation, apart from being degenerate.
However, considering the area around a black hole, conservation of energy is obeyed.
What are you getting at?
Galileo was a man of science oppressed by the irrational and superstitious. Today, he is used by the irrational and superstitious who claim they are being oppressed by science - Mark Crislip
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RE: Zero Point Energy: ?
May 11, 2009 at 7:44 am
(This post was last modified: May 11, 2009 at 7:54 am by g-mark.)
Oh, the area around the black hole. So where is the substance sucked into if there is no 'inside'?
Well you can't possible know what happens in a black hole as it is unknown. Therefore to state a blackhole follows any laws is ridiculous. You can make assumption all day, but it makes no difference. There is a difference between 'thinking something' and 'knowing something'.
Thats wot im gettin at.
And you will never know. When you or anyone else manages to travel or send something into a black hole that can take readings I will not believe anything a physicist assumes. They have been proven wrong before. So, until that point you can write to your hearts desire.
If you study science, can you understand everything in the Universe?
Next you will probably tell me a worm hole is something that travels through an apple. Which it does.
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