Psalm 137:9

[Godscreated]

Since you posted this what is your take on what is said, do you see God's approval in this psalm. Do you actually see God speaking in this psalm. Just because God inspires the words a man writes does not mean He approves of the actions of the characters in the story or in this case a song.


OF course not - no god exists that can fulfill all the contradictory claims the bible makes for it - it is nonsense

However - if you really look through the old testament - there are several examples of situations in which the god actually mass murdered people =- especially innocent children - IF those things had actually happened.

THE passover is a great example of the mass murder of the first born of Egypt -=- who were almost (The exception would have been the Pharaoh) all completely innocent of any wrongdoing to deserve to be killed in the action. Especially - when you consider that in ANY population - approximately 21 percent of the people are UNDER age 5 - too young to be able to do anything deserving of being killed alone. And the killings were the act of the god in the fairy tale

THE great flood would be an example of such a mass murder on a grand scale - if it had happened as well. At the supposed time of the flood (claimed 2200-2300BC by the Jewish Calendar). At the time - about 5 million people existed on earth - over a million of them below age 5 . So - the killing all the people on earth would have been a massive mass murder - if it had happened

However - we also know that neither the flood nor the passover happened.

WE have continuous use of the Egyptian Language and continuation of their culture from before creation of the bible to today - so NO worldwide flood happened (Nubia - China - and other countries also spanned the time without incident)

Archeology has pretty much "demolished" the bible as a history
http://freethought.mbdojo.com/archeology.html


[/quote]

How does the Creator mass murder, He gives all life, it comes from Him, it belongs to Him, is it not His right to judge that life/lives and do what He determines is best for His creation.
Think about it like this, God does not destroy the life that has been bought, only the lives which refuse to be secured by the payment given for them.

[chi pan]

I don't think you know what "context" means.

If you did, you would not try to shoehorn the beliefs of ignorant iron-age goat herders into modern life.

Wake up. The coffee is brewing.

It's not shoe horning. It's reading carefully. First, he announced it to the town so it's obvious she knew. So in your story she's suicidal. Second, she said she wanted to go to the mountains to bewail her virginity. Why is that significant if she's dying? And third, it did not say and she was dead it said "and she knew no man." with this evidence it's clear she did not die. She was not going to be sacrificed, the story is about a girl who took control of her own destany. She did not want to be a housewife so she made it so she was a servant to the lord. If you paid attention to these details and knew about the laws of Levidicus, you would know this. The problem is you take a story out of culture and out of its original language and get mad when someone points out the true meaning of these Hebrew words and message of the story. Also a few other things, Jephthah very well knew the Torah. He knew human sacrifice was forbidden, sacrifice was for cleansing sin not for celebration, and that you can't sacrifice female (animals). It must be male. So your story does not make sense. What if a fly was the first to come out? He would heve to sacrifice that? No. It is refering to sacrifice as is listed in Leviticus 27. It's not a streach, but an alternate definition that IS LISTED ALREADY in the bible. And it makes more sense.

[The Grand Nudger]

How does the Creator mass murder, He gives all life, it comes from Him, it belongs to Him, is it not His right to judge that life/lives and do what He determines is best for His creation.
Think about it like this, God does not destroy the life that has been bought, only the lives which refuse to be secured by the payment given for them.

Just because you've sold yourself at such a cheap price does not mean that your god owns the rest of us. God as slave driver punishing runaways, rgr, I get it.

[Phil]

Did you not read it?

YES I FUCKING READ IT

He's an apologist too...just like you. He's making excuses for his bullshit just like you are.

You are both blind because you oh-so-desperately want to believe that your fucking god is not just one more iron-age barbaric monstrosity.

You ( and he) are FUCKING WRONG. I do not need some apologetic asshole to explain the words to me. I can read them myself. You, obviously, cannot.

Now do you fucking get it?

This is simple shit....simple enough even for you. Jeptha makes a vow and keeps his vow. Figure it out.

Don't you just love it when christoholics and apologists use the Christian deluded version of the Texas Sharpshooter fallacy? I wonder, ignoring the New Testament and ones obvious distaste of human sacrifice (IOW, no preconceived notions), how the hell does anyone get the idiotic interpretation of chiapet and his favorite apologist from reading the story in the Old Testament?

[chi pan]

Did you not read it?

YES I FUCKING READ IT

He's an apologist too...just like you. He's making excuses for his bullshit just like you are.

You are both blind because you oh-so-desperately want to believe that your fucking god is not just one more iron-age barbaric monstrosity.

You ( and he) are FUCKING WRONG. I do not need some apologetic asshole to explain the words to me. I can read them myself. You, obviously, cannot.

Now do you fucking get it?

This is simple shit....simple enough even for you. Jeptha makes a vow and keeps his vow. Figure it out.

Don't you just love it when christoholics and apologists use the Christian deluded version of the Texas Sharpshooter fallacy? I wonder, ignoring the New Testament and ones obvious distaste of human sacrifice (IOW, no preconceived notions), how the hell does anyone get the idiotic interpretation of chiapet and his favorite apologist from reading the story in the Old Testament?

You say ignore the new testament because you think the old testament doesn't say human sacrifice is wrong? Well it does say its wrong. Deut 12:31

Thou shalt not do so unto the Lord thy God: for every abomination to the Lord, which he hateth, have they done unto their gods; for even their sons and their daughters they have burnt in the fire to their gods.

As for the interpretation, it takes a little looking into because you see sacrifice and think death, but it's saying sacrifice and looking at Leviticus 27 definition that is clearly stated. Just because the words you're reading don't fit your definition doesnt mean it's rediculous to say so.

[The Grand Nudger]

So, what we're essentially doing here is engaging in a book club meeting? You like the story, I don't think it's very compelling. You've been able to read more into it than I have. Maybe the next book in the series will be better. You sure do have alot to say about something for which you cannot produce a scrap of evidence btw.

[chi pan]

So, what we're essentially doing here is engaging in a book club meeting? You like the story, I don't think it's very compelling. You've been able to read more into it than I have. Maybe the next book in the series will be better. You sure do have alot to say about something for which you cannot produce a scrap of evidence btw.

Honestly rhythm can you keep track of what we're talking about? We aren't talking about physical evidence we are talking consistancy of bible stories and how they line up with God's character. They made a claim about the story of Jephthah and I'm talking about that story pointing out the true meaning. Please stop trying to change the subject after every one of my posts.

[The Grand Nudger]

You're evidence for your "true meaning" is what, apologetics? Well excuse me for being unimpressed. I've asked for that as well, and I haven't seen it offered. I just want to be perfectly clear here, that no matter what your claims about god, or the narrative of god are, it's likely that you have no...

Evidence?

(you see, sounds to me like Jephthah had a lesbian for a daughter, and that was fucking with his plans to trade her for a goat and two bags of sand, but at least I have the honesty to admit that it is conjecture based upon a fairy tale. Context arguments are unimpressive to me, and here's why. The context of your narrative is this: it's a fairy tale.)

[chi pan]

You're evidence for your "true meaning" is what, apologetics? Well excuse me for being unimpressed. I've asked for that as well, and I haven't seen it offered. I just want to be perfectly clear here, that no matter what your claims about god, or the narrative of god are, it's likely that you have no...

Evidence?

(you see, sounds to me like Jephthah had a lesbian for a daughter, and that was fucking with his plans to trade her for a goat and two bags of sand, but at least I have the honesty to admit that it is conjecture based upon a fairy tale. Context arguments are unimpressive to me, and here's why. The context of your narrative is this: it's a fairy tale.)

An arguement used by most atheists here.
Athiest: "your God of the bible is evil because of this story"
Christian: "no, you have the story wrong. This is what happened."
Athiest: "well that's just stupid because the whole bible is stupid."
You only use the bible to prove how rediculous the stories are and how evil God is. But when you use a story to say God is evil but then proven by having the true story revealed, you revert to your backup saying "that's stupid because the bible is crap and made up anyways." you can't win a biblical discussion so you have a double standard arguement so biblical arguements only work when you use them. Quite frankly, I'm unimpressed and unsurprised.

[The Grand Nudger]

The theists constant reply "Please believe me!". Try harder. I wonder why you quoted my post in your reply, as though I had argued or asked for anything other than..

Evidence?

(also, believe you're actually strawmanning an entire group of people at once btw )