Suggestions for atheist framework

[AndrewT]

I am a Roman Catholic and I have friends who are atheist, and quite a few for very good reasons considering the hypocrisy and failures of the Church at large. I have one friend in particular that i am trying to find a "healthy" atheist communities or phylosopher for to help him find his own meaning with out needing to use or convert to Christianity. Who are the more renowned atheist philosophers who have made moves toward a framework that helps a person struggling to find meaning to life?

I want to make a very superficial observation about this community. It seems you spend more time trying to convince each other of that God does not exist than working through issues of meaning with each other. If you don't believe in God then fine, ignore us and the insecure idiots that call themselves Christians and work with each other to demonstrate the relevance of your philosophy.

Thank you for your suggestions,

Andrew

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Sorry that second sentence was an enormous run-on!

[Zen Badger]

Life has no meaning, so ride motorbikes and get as much sex as you can.

[Abracadabra]

I personally can't point to any atheist philosophers for your concerns. In fact, I happen to actually have strong spiritual leanings myself. However, I don't view those as giving life any more 'meaning'. Although, they may be more romantically compelling, so I suppose in that sense that could be more 'meaningful' than a non-spiritual existence.

I have one friend in particular that i am trying to find a "healthy" atheist communities or philosopher for to help him find his own meaning with out needing to use or convert to Christianity.

I find the fact that you point to Christianity as something that would supposedly give "meaning" to life to be quite strange.

Why should the idea of a jealous god who casts the vast majority of souls he creates into a place of eternal damnation, and saves only a very few souls to be his eternally unworthy servants who will forever be far beneath him, be any more meaningful than a mere secular existence?

Would it supposedly be more meaningful simply because it supposedly lasts forever?

What I would suggest to do is to simply ask your friend the following question?

If a short lifespan has no meaning for you, then why would an eternal lifespan have any more meaning?

Or perhaps this is a question you should ask yourself?

Why should an eternal life automatically have meaning if a life that ends has no meaning?

In what way would perpetuating life for eternity give it 'meaning' if it has no meaning in as a finite term?

A meaningless finite life, would still be meaningless if extended forever.

There would need to be something else that gives life meaning. And whatever that something else would be, should give meaning to either an eternal or a finite lifespan.

So life is either meaningful or it isn't. Whether a person is spiritual or not wouldn't have any bearing on that.

In fact, people who would desperately like to believe in an eternal life probably do so for two possible reasons.

1. They already see life as being hugely meaningful and would like to extend this meaningful situation forever.

OR

2. Perhaps they see life as being really disgusting and filled with suffering and without any meaning, and hope that if there could be "life after death" maybe things could improve in that new situation thus bringing meaning to an otherwise meaningless life.

I imagine that most Christians are hoping for #2 to be true. They are hoping that the next life will be more meaningful than this one. Although, many of them may actually believe in both #1 and #2. Being both happy with this life, and hoping for an ever better life in the after life.

Of course, if they wind up in the Christian God's hell, suddenly their life after death would be far less meaningful than it could have ever been here.

So the religion actually offers a less meaningful life for most people. Jesus supposedly taught that the path is straight and the gate is narrow that leads to the Kingdom of God, and few will make it. That means that the vast majority of souls will unfortunately go to the other place.

~~~~~

On a totally different note, you might want to suggest to your "atheist" friend that he or she consider alternative spiritual pictures. It really doesn't need to be broken down to being either Hebrew Mythology or Atheism. There are far more choices out there. And some of them are really attractive. Far more so than the Hebrew mythology.

I can personally imagine a spiritual essence to reality that goes far beyond what most people seem to even be able to imagine. Far greater than anything the ancient Hebrews were capable of imagining for sure.

So the choices for spirituality don't need to be limited to just either atheism or Hebrew mythology.

Just realizing that might cheer your friend up.

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For me personally, a picture of eternal life does not make life more meaningful. Life is either meaningful or it isn't.

In fact, for me to even desire that life should be eternal already implies that I feel that life is meaningful, otherwise, why would I wish for it to be extended?

So the meaningfulness of life is a given.

The question of whether or not it could potentially be extended eternally is a totally different question altogether.

My main reason for wishing that life could be eternally experience isn't even so much a personal desire. It actually has more to do with the idea that if life is just a very brief fleeting accident. It just seems like just a huge universe is just a waste. So in that sense (from the perspective of the universe itself), it seems that a continued state of consciousness and the ability to enjoy the physical things in life would be a good thing for the universe itself.

But that really has nothing to do with meaning.

Clearly life is what it is, and that is the essence of meaning right there.

If people didn't already feel that life is meaningful then why would they be so obsessed with hoping that it could be eternal?

So the meaning of life is an automatic given for everyone, be they spiritual or atheist. So ironically, it's actually a meaningless question to even ask.

The existence of a "God" would not give life "meaning".

[Minimalist]

For me, atheism simply means that there is no evidence for any of the gods created by the human imagination.

I'm hard pressed to work that into some sort of "philosophy."

I suppose the most I could offer would be to say that all of the assorted rituals which theists have invented to honor the god who does not exist can be dispensed with and the time saved put to a more productive purpose.

[Abracadabra]

For me, atheism simply means that there is no evidence for any of the gods created by the human imagination.

A lot of people use the term "Atheism" to actually mean that they believe that when your body dies, it's lights out and that's that.

That's actually a 'belief' of sorts. It's a belief that there is nothing more to life than meets the eye.

In fact, I meet "atheists" quite often who suggest (and often even demand) that when you die that's it. They even suggest that it's a exhibition of extreme stupidity to even consider that something else might potentially happen.

And the truly radical ones even proclaim that the scientific community stands firmly behind their views.

That last part is the part that is truly sad. And grossly untrue as well.

[KichigaiNeko]

I want to make a very superficial observation about this community. It seems you spend more time trying to convince each other of that God does not exist than working through issues of meaning with each other. If you don't believe in God then fine, ignore us and the insecure idiots that call themselves Christians and work with each other to demonstrate the relevance of your philosophy.

Are you sure the "each other" are atheists? Or are the "each other" irritating Theistic / Cretinists who seriously have no idea which is why you sought us out??

[KichigaiNeko]

Yet ANOTHER theist who feels that an introduction is unwarranted for an Atheist forum!!

[Nine]

If you don't believe in God then fine, ignore us and the insecure idiots that call themselves Christians and work with each other to demonstrate the relevance of your philosophy.

Thank you for your suggestions,

I like to find my own 'Meaning' and find philosophy just lots of meaningless clever words. So personally I don't want to work with others just to prove to others there is a point in existing.

Way i see it I exist and i plan to make the most of my tiny chunk of time i have been lucky enough to have found myself in. I find amazing beauty in our universe and planet. I love my fellow humans. (most of them at least) I have no reason why i'm here other than a bizarre combination of luck an ancestral skill. I plan to enjoy this life to the full.

Your find the majority of Atheist's have their own individuals views on almost everything. We dont tend to follow after anyone or have a specific framework. Lots of love anyway <3

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Yet ANOTHER theist who feels that an introduction is unwarranted for an Atheist forum!!

I guess this is a regular thing then.

[KichigaiNeko]

Yet ANOTHER theist who feels that an introduction is unwarranted for an Atheist forum!!

I guess this is a regular thing then.

Seems to be Insanity Mark. Seems to be...

[Nine]

I'm mostly upset because I'm now the 2nd newest account