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RE: Mormon --> Agnostic --> Atheist
March 11, 2012 at 1:30 pm
LOL...I knew if i wrote that that someone would jump on it. lol. I dont mind the question at all. I've often wondered the same thing, but in regards to the women who killed all her children because god told her to do it. People in the church would declare that that women was nuts but then that very same sunday we'd discuss the righteous act of Abraham who was about to kill his kid and i'd wonder, "really?" One women actually said, "I bet that was a wonderful bonding experience for them." I was incredulous and even said out loud, "Are you serious?!" But back to the magic underwear....
There are many types of metrics used to measure if one is 'off their rock' in the church. The metric used in the church to measure if one is of their rock in regard to the underwear is church doctrine. There was nothing in doctrine ascribing magical powers to the underwear. Doctrine confirmed a 'protective' role but it was a banal role as I mentioned earlier. The individual who claims they are "magic," or protective beyond what is stated in doctrine, is condemned by most mormons because their belief was outside church doctrine. We can condemn the individual because they were not following the doctrine of the group.
But what about doctrine that is actually quite magical in nature. For example, Joseph Smith used a "seeing eye" stone and breastplate in order to translate the book or mormon. The book was written in an unknown language but if joseph looked through this stone while wearing the plate then he could translate the book. No one else could do this and he had to be on the other side of a veil or it also wouldnt work. If one is a mormon then the obvious deceit is therefore discarded and one is left to consider only the "magical" nature of the act. The explanation is quite simple - it is a science that is beyond our understanding. No, i'm not kidding you. It is believed to be a science beyond our understanding.
There's also another metric used to measure acts carried out by members who believe god told them to do something. That's too complicated for now.
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RE: Mormon --> Agnostic --> Atheist
March 11, 2012 at 1:40 pm
Quote:if joseph looked through this stone while wearing the plate then he could translate the book.
In the big picture it is no stupider than mohammed having a dream and dictating to the one goat-fucker in the tribe who could write.
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RE: Mormon --> Agnostic --> Atheist
March 11, 2012 at 3:59 pm
(This post was last modified: March 11, 2012 at 4:12 pm by Blanca.)
(March 11, 2012 at 12:34 pm)Rhythm Wrote: You know, forgive me for asking this, and definitely don't take it personally, because I'm honestly interested. How does one decide, from within a group of mormons, who is "a little off their rock". I mean, by what metrics, how would one go about criticizing the individual without condemning the group? How did that play out? Where was the wall between magic underwear and magic anything else, when you still believed? I suppose I don't really have the opportunity to grill a recently un-mormon-ed person very often, and of all of the religious traditions floating around in this country, that one is particularly fascinating.
(ah, also, male or female, if you don't mind me asking?)
I forgot to quote this when I responded. Post #21 is in reply to the above.
Hello Zip! De-converting after 30 years is quite a shock to the system. I found that once I started to accept that there was no god and mormonism was wrong that my head actually stopped spinning. Life has never made more sense then it does now.
(March 11, 2012 at 12:46 pm)Ziploc Surprise Wrote: Hello Blanca, glad you could make it here.
I recently deconverted after 30 years as a funda mentalist Christian, and I also live in the Bible belt. Oddly I did the agnosticism thing for a while too. Deconversion can sometimes make your head spin as your whole reality gets adjusted. Even now my head still spins a bit. I have found that if you are honest (and it appears as if you are) the people here are really supportive. They are also really cool about things when you are wrong about stuff so long as you aren't arrogant (i.e. willing to accept an argument that is presented well enough to be considered). I've been corrected many times, mostly about biblical interpretation, and they are really cool about it. There is so much stuff I didn't learn as a fundy. These people here are able to present the facts well and will cite their sources if asked. Of the people I've met here Min, rhythm and DiestPaladin (I really need to learn how to spell his name) have been very helpful with providing information and sources. BTW min I finished reading some of the books you suggested. DP has some great Youtube videos.
Oh and if you need to vent they can vent along with you.
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RE: Mormon --> Agnostic --> Atheist
March 11, 2012 at 4:25 pm
Yeah, its not easy to kick religion out of your system, I for instance was catholic and still was hard to let go of te indoctrination. My opinion? Catholics, protestants, JW's, muslims: Same shit with different smells. 
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RE: Mormon --> Agnostic --> Atheist
March 11, 2012 at 5:20 pm
Same shit, same smell, same color, different assholes.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Mormon --> Agnostic --> Atheist
March 11, 2012 at 5:35 pm
Accepting that there was no god was the hardest thing for me to do. I had accepted that the religion was bullshit long before I accepted the no god thing. I'm glad your head isn't spinning. I just wanted to help you feel welcome. For some people (not all) it can be a bit daunting to admit that they were an ex _____. They wonder if they will be ridiculed for it - this hasn't happened here. Anyway, I'm glad you could make it here.
On another note what the hell is the "metric" you were referring to?
I have studied the Bible and the theology behind Christianity for many years. I have been to many churches. I have walked the depth and the breadth of the religion and, as a result of this, I have a lot of bullshit to scrape off the bottom of my shoes. ~Ziploc Surprise
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RE: Mormon --> Agnostic --> Atheist
March 11, 2012 at 9:12 pm
(March 11, 2012 at 5:35 pm)Ziploc Surprise Wrote: Accepting that there was no god was the hardest thing for me to do. I had accepted that the religion was bullshit long before I accepted the no god thing. I'm glad your head isn't spinning. I just wanted to help you feel welcome. For some people (not all) it can be a bit daunting to admit that they were an ex _____. They wonder if they will be ridiculed for it - this hasn't happened here. Anyway, I'm glad you could make it here.
On another note what the hell is the "metric" you were referring to?
The metric post was in response to a question Rhythm asked. I forgot to quote his post so it does seem a little out of the blue.
I knew mormonism was wrong long before I knew there was no god, too. At first i thought mormons just had god wrong, but then quickly realized that the only evidence for god was the bible and that book is a disaster. None of it makes sense. After that realization I just stopped thinking about god. I started thinking more about life. Then I guess the god concept just dissolved as I never thought about it. But last week I was having a particularly rough week and my old knee-jerk reaction to plead to god for help crept up in my mind and i had the first real epiphany that I was just desperate and there was no one there. I guess it was quite shocking.
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RE: Mormon --> Agnostic --> Atheist
March 11, 2012 at 9:16 pm
Sounds like it.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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