Freewill

[Nine]

Christ had to die, blood is the atonement for sin, why, life is in the blood.

Life is also in semen. Why couldn't Jesus just donate that instead?

Masturbation is murder. Just sayin. Monty Python told me.

[Neo-Scholastic]

GodsChild, your sorietology is all wrong. Sacrificial atonement makes two wrongs a right. The so-called sin of Adam corrected by the brutal injustice of the Passion now absolves the guilty of their crimes? It disregards the need for sinners to repent and take actions leading to their regeneration. Christ saves us by the example of His life, not through the manner of his death.

All the prophets served as examples and representatives of the Word. When our Lord commanded Hosea to marry a prostitute, it served as a metaphor for the way the Israelis whored the Word. God also commanded Ezekiel to eat cow dung. In this way, the Lord revealed that the Israelis had mixed falsity and evil into the Word. Isaiah was told to spend three years naked and barefoot. Jeremiah wore a yoke to show how the priests and scribes had burdened the Word with man-made rules and commands. Jesus in His humanity struggled with the call to represent the state of the God’s covenant in his role as the greatest prophet. At the time our Lord prayed in Gethsemane, the church despised, tortured, and ultimately murdered the spiritual meaning of the Word.

Our Lord’s death and resurrection is only important because if the corpse of the Jewish carpenter, Jesus, had remained dead then you would see the Word symbolically destroyed for all time. But that is not what the Gospels record. He arose. You cannot escape the clear symbolism; the spiritual meaning of the Word cannot be destroyed.

Jesus was not, as you believe, a God/Man from birth, but someone who through the course of his life fully identified with and responded to the purpose of the God consciousness within himself. In so doing he shed the natural human nature that is prone to temptation and suffering. Through glorification he became the Divine Human which guides us by example in our regeneration.

In his glorified state our Lord Jesus Christ provides us with an image of the Ideal Form, the Divine Human to which all other humans aspire but can only partially manifest. God is incarnate in the lives of all humans when they act according to the call from God. This is what it means to be "saved".

[genkaus]

GodsChild, your sorietology is all wrong. Sacrificial atonement makes two wrongs a right. The so-called sin of Adam corrected by the brutal injustice of the Passion now absolves the guilty of their crimes? It disregards the need for sinners to repent and take actions leading to their regeneration. Christ saves us by the example of His life, not through the manner of his death.

All the prophets served as examples and representatives of the Word. When our Lord commanded Hosea to marry a prostitute, it served as a metaphor for the way the Israelis whored the Word. God also commanded Ezekiel to eat cow dung. In this way, the Lord revealed that the Israelis had mixed falsity and evil into the Word. Isaiah was told to spend three years naked and barefoot. Jeremiah wore a yoke to show how the priests and scribes had burdened the Word with man-made rules and commands. Jesus in His humanity struggled with the call to represent the state of the God’s covenant in his role as the greatest prophet. At the time our Lord prayed in Gethsemane, the church despised, tortured, and ultimately murdered the spiritual meaning of the Word.

Our Lord’s death and resurrection is only important because if the corpse of the Jewish carpenter, Jesus, had remained dead then you would see the Word symbolically destroyed for all time. But that is not what the Gospels record. He arose. You cannot escape the clear symbolism; the spiritual meaning of the Word cannot be destroyed.

Jesus was not, as you believe, a God/Man from birth, but someone who through the course of his life fully identified with and responded to the purpose of the God consciousness within himself. In so doing he shed the natural human nature that is prone to temptation and suffering. Through glorification he became the Divine Human which guides us by example in our regeneration.

In his glorified state our Lord Jesus Christ provides us with an image of the Ideal Form, the Divine Human to which all other humans aspire but can only partially manifest. God is incarnate in the lives of all humans when they act according to the call from God. This is what it means to be "saved".

That was almost beautiful. Crazy as balls, but beautiful.

[Sciwoman]

[FallentoReason]

But that is not what the Gospels record. He arose.

what is it that they record again, I always forget. Was there 1 man, 2 men, 1 angel or 2 angels waiting for Mary at the tomb? Keep in mind the earliest manuscripts of Mark don't have the verses of people witnessing a resurrected Jesus.

Last time I checked the answer was all 4. Chinese whispers?

[Neo-Scholastic]

But that is not what the Gospels record. He arose.

what is it that they record again, I always forget. Was there 1 man, 2 men, 1 angel or 2 angels waiting for Mary at the tomb? Keep in mind the earliest manuscripts of Mark don't have the verses of people witnessing a resurrected Jesus.

Last time I checked the answer was all 4. Chinese whispers?

Yeah, yeah...heard all about the apparent contradictions, really don't want to debate that right now. I just wanted to make my Christian brother aware that sacrificial atonement is only one of many ways of interpreting "salvation".

[Phil]

Yeah, yeah...heard all about the apparent contradictions, really don't want to debate that right now. I just wanted to make my Christian brother aware that sacrificial atonement is only one of many ways of interpreting "salvation".

Run Ubu run.

[Undeceived]

Sacrificial atonement makes two wrongs a right. The so-called sin of Adam corrected by the brutal injustice of the Passion now absolves the guilty of their crimes? It disregards the need for sinners to repent and take actions leading to their regeneration. Christ saves us by the example of His life, not through the manner of his death.

It's not the injustice the Romans gave that saves us, it's Jesus' love poured out on the cross. The point is that Jesus died when he did not deserve death--he never sinned, and he faces the penalty anyway. Being God, he was also able to take all our sins on himself. Jesus asked the Father, "Why have you forsaken me?" implying that even God the Father could not look upon his Son as he bore the sins of the world. Today, sinners do need to repent in order to receive the sacrifice Jesus already gave. The Bible is one great love story. If God just gave us salvation without our asking what would either get out of the situation? A father is not going to let his daughter eat her dinner until she at least promises to try not to stab her brother with the fork again. That's the first part of repentance--abiding by the law. The second is love. Which is better--to do the right thing out of fear of punishment or out of love for whom you're doing it? A parent would know the answer to this also. So these two are all Jesus wants in return for a salvation we ourselves could never earn. But Christianity isn't incentive-oriented. It's love-oriented, meaning all my attempts to convince you to repent for eternal life will go nowhere--because, ultimately, you must love Jesus first. Christianity is not about what you get, it's a state of mind. You don't find Jesus, he finds you.

Jesus was not, as you believe, a God/Man from birth, but someone who through the course of his life fully identified with and responded to the purpose of the God consciousness within himself.

Then why does he claim to be God at least 40 times in the Gospels? Why would writers make up prophets to symbolize the Word not dying when they (the prophets) themselves make up most of the Word? What is the point beyond the ten commandments? Why impose poetic stories on people with the appearance of truth when there is no ultimate purpose behind them? The prophets predicted a Messiah--one greater than they--and he came. He didn't claim to be a prophet like they did. Men like Jesus had come along hundreds of times claiming to be messiahs--they all died horrible, unglorified deaths. No one tried to make up stories about them. Yet the life, death and resurrection of Jesus spread and created multitudes of converts within five years of his time on earth. Were they all so easily fooled?

Jesus' divinity: http://www.scripturecatholic.com/jesus_c...#jesus-III

In his glorified state our Lord Jesus Christ provides us with an image of the Ideal Form, the Divine Human to which all other humans aspire but can only partially manifest. God is incarnate in the lives of all humans when they act according to the call from God. This is what it means to be "saved".

Romans 10:9:
"That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."
John 3:16:
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."

[Phil]

Which is better--to do the right thing out of fear of punishment or out of love for whom you're doing it?

Oh so close yet the christotard misses by a few parsecs. The greatest choice is the one you purposefully omitted. It is to do the right thing not to avoid punishment or out of "love" for a sky daddy but because it is the right thing. Why is that such a difficult concept for christotards to understand?

[FallentoReason]

Yet the life, death and resurrection of Jesus spread and created multitudes of converts within five years of his time on earth. Were they all so easily fooled?

It's not that they were fooled. They were already familiar with the idea of a god sending down himself to Earth e.g. Zeus and Heracles. The themes found in the NT already existed for around a thousand years before Jesus was even thought of.

I think the anonymous authors of the Gospels deserve a pat on the back for a successful marketing strategy. Although I'd only give them 2/10 for originality and 0/10 for proof reading. If they're going to copy each other's hearsay accounts at least make them sound remotely similar. Regardless, they knew what their target audience wanted to hear.