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RE: Do you agree with Richard Dawkins?
May 17, 2012 at 12:48 pm
(This post was last modified: May 17, 2012 at 12:49 pm by liam.)
Sorry for commenting tangentially from the current discussion but despite being thoroughly in favour of any non-religion I can't help but feel that Dawkins has set the atheist argument back in terms of reasoning and logic, and his self-proclaimed 'militant atheism' is incredibly frustrating. Having read the god delusion I honestly feel personally offended that his collection of crass and amateurish arguments are considered to be a philosophical text. To be perfectly honest I'd sooner be forced to ingest Hemlock than group myself with Dawkins.
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RE: Do you agree with Richard Dawkins?
May 17, 2012 at 1:12 pm
(May 17, 2012 at 12:48 pm)liam Wrote: Sorry for commenting tangentially from the current discussion but despite being thoroughly in favour of any non-religion I can't help but feel that Dawkins has set the atheist argument back in terms of reasoning and logic, and his self-proclaimed 'militant atheism' is incredibly frustrating. Having read the god delusion I honestly feel personally offended that his collection of crass and amateurish arguments are considered to be a philosophical text. To be perfectly honest I'd sooner be forced to ingest Hemlock than group myself with Dawkins.
I don't think Dawkins ever claimed his arguments to be philosophical in nature. You have examples of any arguments you consider particularly crass and amateurish?
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RE: Do you agree with Richard Dawkins?
May 17, 2012 at 1:39 pm
No but they are on philosophy syllabuses (syllabi? idk) quite universally. In particular I would focus on his attempt to refute the cosmological argument, his argument is not very well considered and provides very little support and the 'stinkiest thing' argument is generally piss poor. As an evolutionary biologist i quite like him but his transition into more philosophical or theological realms is one that should be approached with apprehension. Just a thought.
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RE: Do you agree with Richard Dawkins?
May 17, 2012 at 2:03 pm
(May 17, 2012 at 1:39 pm)liam Wrote: No but they are on philosophy syllabuses (syllabi? idk) quite universally. In particular I would focus on his attempt to refute the cosmological argument, his argument is not very well considered and provides very little support and the 'stinkiest thing' argument is generally piss poor. As an evolutionary biologist i quite like him but his transition into more philosophical or theological realms is one that should be approached with apprehension. Just a thought.
Honesty time? I haven't read any of Dawkin's work (I keep waiting for the movie  ). All I know about him is form his lecture videos and television appearances and so far like what I see. So, I was hoping you'd actually give me the argument here so that I can judge his philosophical base without having to go through the trouble of reading the book.
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RE: Do you agree with Richard Dawkins?
May 17, 2012 at 2:09 pm
(May 17, 2012 at 2:03 pm)genkaus Wrote: Honesty time? I haven't read any of Dawkin's work (I keep waiting for the movie ). All I know about him is form his lecture videos and television appearances and so far like what I see. So, I was hoping you'd actually give me the argument here so that I can judge his philosophical base without having to go through the trouble of reading the book.
Same here, except I also wouldn't watch the movie. I have watched many, many hours of videos featuring Dawkins on Youtube, though. So far his arguments have been sound, even though he's a fairly awful dabater (as he admits). I've also never heard mention of any flaws in the arguments from his books, with the exception of those from theists who find "flaws" in his arguments for evolution. That's not to say the flaws aren't there. I'm just very interested in knowing what, exactly, the flaws are.
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RE: Do you agree with Richard Dawkins?
May 17, 2012 at 2:52 pm
Well his refutations aren't necessarily wrong but rather unexplained and are poor examples of discourse, for example (and im pretty much paraphrasing from almost a year ago);
'Aquinas argues that because there is good, and we can measure it, there must be a 'most good' thing, yet this proves nothing. I may say that because we measure the stinkiness of things there must be a 'stinkiest thing' ' Once again this is a very loose quote but the main point is the same and the general disrespect for the argument is equally present -.-
Alas, I don't like some other points he makes on it as they're very general and often already used, for which he provides no further explanation, like saying there is no evidence for god as cause, seems pretty regurgitated to me. once again, just a thought
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RE: Do you agree with Richard Dawkins?
May 17, 2012 at 3:50 pm
(May 17, 2012 at 2:52 pm)liam Wrote: Well his refutations aren't necessarily wrong but rather unexplained and are poor examples of discourse, for example (and im pretty much paraphrasing from almost a year ago);
'Aquinas argues that because there is good, and we can measure it, there must be a 'most good' thing, yet this proves nothing. I may say that because we measure the stinkiness of things there must be a 'stinkiest thing' ' Once again this is a very loose quote but the main point is the same and the general disrespect for the argument is equally present -.-
Alas, I don't like some other points he makes on it as they're very general and often already used, for which he provides no further explanation, like saying there is no evidence for god as cause, seems pretty regurgitated to me. once again, just a thought
The stinky argument seems like a pretty good example of reductio ad absurdum to me.
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RE: Do you agree with Richard Dawkins?
May 17, 2012 at 4:26 pm
Yeah, I never got the argument about the "most good" thing being special in some way. I'm pretty sure the most good thing is just a blow job.
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RE: Do you agree with Richard Dawkins?
May 18, 2012 at 3:48 am
Quote:I can't help but feel that Dawkins has set the atheist argument back in terms of reasoning and logic
Argument? What argument?
"As an atheist" I don't have an argument, I have a position. IE I assert only: " I do not believe in god(s) due to the lack of of credible evidence." I make no claims so need argue exactly nothing.
I have always considered Dawkins an excellent debater and clever polemicist,but a weak philosopher. Pretty sure he has never claimed to be philosopher. Dawkins does not speak for me,nor do I recognise the so-called 'atheist movement' . In my opinion there can be no such thing by definition: Atheism is not an ideology, philosophy,world view, moral code, or religion. Atheism is ONLY the absence of a belief in God(s). NOTHING ELSE IS IMPLIED OR MAY BE INFERRED.PERIOD.
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RE: Do you agree with Richard Dawkins?
May 18, 2012 at 2:54 pm
no but i'd rather support it as an argument, after all if someone argues for something with no reason it's not entirely so strong. Besides, we may also suppose that there is no evidence that disputes the existence of god so therefore god must exist, an argument tantamount to that which you advocate. Obviously I agree that the lack of credible evidence is the basis for atheism itself but I'd rather attempt to substantiate this view than dogmatically oppose a lack of evidence to which my own argument is subject. I don't believe in God but I could never justify dismissing it entirely as a possibility simply because there is no empirical evidence.
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