Atheists are Intolerant

[Abishalom]

You'd have to give at least 1000 to have a proper proportion of atheists to theists.

Yes christians have been martyred, but they died for a cause. Most atheists were killed just for being atheists.

Well if there's that many name as many atheist as you can that received said treatment. I will attempt to match your list.

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Are you serious? You atheists are melodramatic. Name 5 atheists that were "martyred" or at the least received any of said harsh treatments in the past 1500 hundred years and I'll give you 10 Christians.

This reminds me of something a Christian I debated on youtube said (before I found better places to debate, haha). They proudly asserted to me that about two thirds of foreign aid that came from the US was from Christians. What they failed to realise is that given the number of Christians in the US those figures are roughly proportional to how much you'd expect if all members of the population (Christians and non-Christians alike) were giving equally.

Basically I agree with what tobie said above.

Yeah I see where you're coming from. It's like when the atheist claims that atheists are less like to commit a crime. Well when you compare their proportion to the society they live in, one would expect that number to be lower...wouldn't we?

[Napoléon]

Well if there's that many name as many atheist as you can that received said treatment. I will attempt to match your list.

How about you match my list ya prick.

Here: http://atheistforums.org/post-281706.html#pid281706

[Tempus]

Yeah I see where you're coming from. It's like when the atheist claims that atheists are less like to commit a crime. Well when you compare their proportion to the society they live in, one would expect that number to be lower...wouldn't we?

I currently would expect it to be proportional since I haven't seen any statistics or studies about it - but I don't have any belief or opinion formed about it, just an expectation. If you're suggesting that atheists tend to be over represented when it comes to crime (eg, 5% of society X is made up of atheists, but they're responsible for 20% of the crime) then I'm fine with that being a possibility. If this is what you're asserting you'll need to prove it.

EDIT: I edited this post and the meaning of it was changed quite a bit since I changed my mind afterwards. Sorry about that!

[Abishalom]

You miss the point of the post.

The point is that millions (yes millions) of people have died due to christianity, because people refused to believe. They don't necessarily have to be atheist. They could be Jew, Muslim, agnostic whatever. Doesn't matter what label you give them. That's not the point.

The point is that christianity has oppressed others from doing what they want for hundreds of years. And you complain now that secularists simply want religion and normal every day life seperated?

I'm sure the church killed millions of people. But like I said previously how many atheists were "martyred" by them. I think you are confusing the deeds of the Catholic church with the religion as whole. Nowhere in the bible does it teach us to do what the Catholic church did. Did you even know that the Catholic church BANNED the bible at one point in time? It's not wonder. They believed they could get away with it if nobody knew the truth. In fact they killed people attempting to translated it into English.

BUT FUCK IT. You want to go there? Let's fucking go there.
Here's a list of just a few examples of what happens in the name of christianity:

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1. In 356 Pagan practices became punishable by death under christian law. Between 315 and the 6th century thousands of pagans were slaughtered under the christian expansion of Europe.

2. Peasants of Steding (5,000 to 11,000) men, women and children were murdered because they could not afford the high taxes of their christian overlords.

3. Tens of thousands of Gaelic culled by Christian English for not having knowledge of god. 16th and 17th century.

4. Crusades. Some estimates range into 9 million deaths caused by christianity alone. Do your own research for this one, I don't think you can deny in any sense the atrocities caused by the crusades.

5. Massacre of Bezirs 1209. All inhabitants of the town slaughtered by order of Pope Innocent III. Estimated death toll, 20,000 - 70,000.

6. Spanish Inquisitor Torquemada. Estimated he burned 10,220 for heresy against christianity.

7. Burning of witches. In the witch hunting era (1484 - 1750) several hundred thousands people are burnt at the stake or hung.

8. Spanish inquisition 1568. Ordered extermination of 3 million 'rebels'.

9. Pope Pius V ordered the murder of 20,000 Huguenots and causes over 200,000 to flee their homes. 1572.

10. Slayings of the Jews. 4th and 5th centuries untold amounts of synagogues burned down by christians.

Council of Toledo 694. Jews enslaved, property seized by christians, children FORCIBLY baptized.

Right the way through the 11th century and the 17th century all manner of massacres and injustices were caused by christians unto the jews. Look them up.

11. Holocaust. Don't need to go into this one do I? Or do I have to remind you it wasn't just Jews who were slaughtered? 6 million deaths estimated.

12. Conquest of the New World. Countless atrocities caused to the natives of America under the banner of Christian expansion.

Etc fucking etc.

I got my info here: http://www.truthbeknown.com/victims.htm
Fully referenced. I just picked out the few which I could put easily into bullet point format so your puny fucking brain could perhaps better comprehend.


Now tell me that christianity has not opressed and burned and killed and all those other fucking things that picture mentioned.

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Yes I am aware that these events did in fact occur. But what did ANY of these events have to do with alleged atheistic persecution? You are trying to take known truth an stretch them to your "atheism vs Christianity" delusion. Did you really try to list the holocaust as justification for atheistic martyrdom (you can't be serious)? How many atheists do you suppose were "martyred" in these events (a percentage would be nice) in correlation to Christians believers?

Yeah I see where you're coming from. It's like when the atheist claims that atheists are less like to commit a crime. Well when you compare their proportion to the society they live in, one would expect that number to be lower...wouldn't we?

I currently have no expectations since I haven't seen any statistics or studies about it. If you're suggesting that atheists tend to be over represented when it comes to crime (eg, 5% of society X is made up of atheists, but they're responsible for 20% of the crime) then I'm fine with that being a possibility. If this is what you're asserting however, you'll need to prove it.

Oh no I wasn't saying that. I was essentially suggesting that your argument of expectations of said event occurring due to said group's proportion distribution in society could go both ways. Perhaps I should have worded it better. I was saying that atheist will claim that atheists are less likely to commit a crime. But if you examine their proportion in related to the societies they live in that is what we should expect. Is that more clear?

[Paul the Human]

The term is "Per Capita". Do more atheists per capita commit crimes than believers? - is the question.

[Tempus]

Oh no I wasn't saying that. I was essentially suggesting that your argument of expectations of said event occurring due to said group's proportion distribution in society could go both ways. Perhaps I should have worded it better. I was saying that atheist will claim that atheists are less likely to commit a crime. But if you examine their proportion in related to the societies they live in that is what we should expect. Is that more clear?

Yes, that's more clear, I understand. Yes, if atheists make up 5% of society X and someone says "it's less likely in society X for a crime to be committed by an atheist", while technically being correctly, it could simply be that atheists are less responsible for crime because there are less of them. I agree it goes both ways.

Perhaps people who suggest atheists are less likely to commit a crime are taking those proportions into account? Perhaps they're calculating the likelihood of percentages within groups - for example, 20% of atheists have committed a crime, while for the general population it's 30%. This way everything would be kept proportional. Again, I have no idea whether that's true or not that atheists are less (or more) likely to commit a crime - and even if they were there's other factors to take into consideration.

[Phil]

The term is "Per Capita". Do more atheists per capita commit crimes than believers? - is the question.

I was told by an idiot JW that they do and the only reason more Christians are in prison is because they convert to avoid being ass raped. Never could understand that leap of illogic.

[Napoléon]

You miss the point of the post.

The point is that millions (yes millions) of people have died due to christianity, because people refused to believe. They don't necessarily have to be atheist. They could be Jew, Muslim, agnostic whatever. Doesn't matter what label you give them. That's not the point.

The point is that christianity has oppressed others from doing what they want for hundreds of years. And you complain now that secularists simply want religion and normal every day life seperated?

I'm sure the church killed millions of people. But like I said previously how many atheists were "martyred" by them. I think you are confusing the deeds of the Catholic church with the religion as whole. Nowhere in the bible does it teach us to do what the Catholic church did. Did you even know that the Catholic church BANNED the bible at one point in time? It's not wonder. They believed they could get away with it if nobody knew the truth. In fact they killed people attempting to translated it into English.

No true scotsman fallacy. The catholic church are christians are they not?

Your point is mute.

Fact of the matter is people were killed in the name of christianity. It's also funny you say that I'm confusing the deeds of the catholic church with religion as a whole, as though that somehow takes weight away from my argument?

It is also a good point, that "religion as a whole" has been detrimental to the human race. So thanks for helping raise that.

The teachings of the bible or of christianity are of no consequence. If people will murder in its name then you cannot discount christianity itself as one of the primary causes for this.

Yes I am aware that these events did in fact occur. But how many of these people do you suppose were atheist. You are trying to take known truth an stretch them to your "atheism vs Christianity" fantasy. How many atheists were "martyred" in these events?

"How many of these people do you suppose were atheist"

AS THOUGH IT FUCKING MATTERS?

All those people I listed there died or were oppressed regardless of what fucking label you wish to put on them. It is YOU who wishes to place these such labels not me.

I am telling you in no uncertain terms, and with clear evidence to back it up, that MILLIONS of people, regardless of who they are, have died in the name of not just christianity, but religion.

Yet you are sitting there and the exception you take is whether they were atheist or not?

Are you really so fucking brain dead?

[Abishalom]

The term is "Per Capita". Do more atheists per capita commit crimes than believers? - is the question.

See you're doing too. Our friend Tempus used that argument to belittle Christian charitable works. Christians represent a larger % of the population in correlation to atheist therefore they should have more charitable works. Why doesn't this apply to your "per capita" argument about crimes. Atheists represent a smaller % of the population in correlation to Christians therefore they should commit less crimes. It goes both ways.

[Tobie]

Abishalom: It frequently says in the bible that you should kill people who believe in no god, or don't believe in the same one as you, or even don't listen to a priest's judgement. For example:

Deuteronomy 17:12

Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the Lord your God must be put to death.

Deuteronomy 17:2-5

Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the Lord your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the Lord your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death.

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The term is "Per Capita". Do more atheists per capita commit crimes than believers? - is the question.

See you're doing too. Our friend Tempus used that argument to belittle Christian charitable works. Christians represent a larger % of the population in correlation to atheist therefore they should have more charitable works. Why doesn't this apply to your "per capita" argument about crimes. Atheists represent a smaller % of the population in correlation to Christians therefore they should commit less crimes. It goes both ways.

They do commit less crimes. I forget the exact statistics, but over 90% of the US prison population are theists.