God as the hidden basis to our knowledge.

[Welsh cake]

Something I've been thinking about is how our knowledge of things are unified.

Our "knowledge" is not unified, we have a "centralised pool of knowledge" that may be accessed via various means (i.e. the Internet) depending on what information specifically you want to know.

When we see something beautiful, we have an opinion that is beautiful. If it's not beautiful to everyone, we at least experience beauty.

Personal subjective feelings about reality is not knowledge.

When we see something great, we also have an opinion that is great. But what is the basis to this perception?

Whatever you personally feel is great. Obviously.

Is it just a feeling that is not based on any reality? Is it without basis.

Do bears shit in the wood?

What I mean by "hidden", is that it's not really thought about, and it's only when you really think about it, you realize that God is the hidden basis behind our knowledge of everything.

I've thought about it often and experienced no such epiphany that there's a "hidden" deity. Care to elaborate?

I've seen Atheist make jokes about when people talk about God being the beauty in a sunset, the eloquence of a good poem, the love of the mother for it's child...but when people say things like that, what they mean, really is that God is the basis of the experience of beauty, honor, eloquence, goodness, holiness, greatness and glory in all these things, and this not a far of truth.

I wish I could make a joke too. I've absolutely no idea what you're blathering on about.

When we see honorable character, we see beauty and glory in that, but what is the basis of this perception?

Since you only want to address what is beautiful, what is the basis of the perception of things that are ugly then? Indulge me.

What seems to the basis of it, is that is underlying eternal reality. Why must it be eternal. I will give you a thought experiment.

Provide evidence of this underlying alternate reality please.

Imagine the Creator was neither beautiful, nor glorious, nor morally good. Is it possible then the Creator creates beauty, greatness, and moral goodness.

Yes. I've seen some damn unattractive sweaty artists create some amazing works of art in real life.

So what?

I can imagine a god looking like some of those fugly cosmic deity horrors from the Cthulhu Mythos.

So what?

But what is that eternal reality? It's of course ultimate beauty, ultimate glory, ultimate greatness.

What's the state of ultimate then?

[FallentoReason]

The famous Euthyphro dilemma doesn't prove we don't need God for morality contrary to Atheist claims, it actually shows that it must be eternal or else would be arbitrary.

No, one half of the Euthyphro Dilemma says that morality is possibly arbitrary.. Because something would be good if God commanded it. Why does he command it? Who knows.. It's an arbitrary choice to command that as being good. Similarly, if you're saying that other 'values' such as beauty come from God then they are just as arbitrary. Clearly they're not though because beauty is a subjective thing and no two people will agree on what is and is not beautiful.

[Mystic]

Thanks to everyone for their feed back.

I just feel the world only makes sense with God as the basis of our perception.

It's as if everything is a manifestation of our knowledge of God.

Perhaps because I've been thinking of everything as a sign of God, I'm use to seeing this way.

You guys are not use to it, so you see God as separate from your perception.

I see the world as a manifestation of God's beauty and glory.

It's not that I just believe, I see these things as manifesting an eternal absolute reality and feel our perception is such that is eternally based.

We all free to have our opinion.

It seems all praise we praise is derived from a eternal praiseworthy reality.

This is the way it seems me, and I find impossible to imagine the world as other then this. I try to see it through atheist view, but it just seems the beauty, glory, praise, all just disappears, as if we don't know and don't perceive, but we do perceive and know.

[Minimalist]

so you see God as separate from your perception.

I see god as a figment of someone's imagination.

[Annik]

This is the way it seems me, and I find impossible to imagine the world as other then this. I try to see it through atheist view, but it just seems the beauty, glory, praise, all just disappears, as if we don't know and don't perceive, but we do perceive and know.

This steams my buns. Does knowing music theory ruin music? No. Does knowing art history diminish the masters? No. If anything, it enhances it.

[Hovik]

This is the way it seems me, and I find impossible to imagine the world as other then this. I try to see it through atheist view, but it just seems the beauty, glory, praise, all just disappears, as if we don't know and don't perceive, but we do perceive and know.

This steams my buns. Does knowing music theory ruin music? No. Does knowing art history diminish the masters? No. If anything, it enhances it.

Seriously. A musician doesn't cease to appreciate music, just like an atheist doesn't cease to appreciate nature, life, and existence. It's a liberating and enhancing experience to not attribute all of the universe's natural beauty to some big sky wizard. It becomes far less awesome when what took nature 14 billion years to create is diminished to the wave of a hand. It certainly denigrates its significance.

[Whateverist]

It seems all praise we praise is derived from a eternal praiseworthy reality.

This is the way it seems me, and I find impossible to imagine the world as other then this. I try to see it through atheist view, but it just seems the beauty, glory, praise, all just disappears, as if we don't know and don't perceive, but we do perceive and know.

Yes. The glory and praise all just disappear for me as well seeing the world, as I do, with an atheist's point of view.

I just don't find much use for praise. Apart from training a puppy, what is that really? "Way to go God! You nailed another sunset." Is that the idea? Personally I find praise off-putting. It sort of implies that you did whatever you did just to please the person handing it out. I don't do what I do to win praise and perhaps your God doesn't either.

I don't find any difficulty enjoying a sunrise or a sunset but why imagine anyone or anything putting it on as some sort of show for our enjoyment? Like legs on a snake, I'd say. Shit happens. Some of it is pretty good shit. A sense of wonder is great. But why close that off and attribute it all to the manipulations of one creator? I'd say you're the one losing out on the wonder when you do that.

[Mystic]

*Sigh* it seems most people are bent on making a straw man out of what I'm saying or perhaps I've been unclear.

[Minimalist]

Have you ever given any consideration to the difficulty of being clear about something which does not exist?

It seems like once a day but is probably more like once a week we get someone in here who has defined god in his own terms.

[Neo-Scholastic]

...you realize that God is the hidden basis behind our knowledge of everything.

Or perhaps, hidden in plain sight. When something is ubiquitous we take it for granted and overlook its presence.

One old fish says to the other, "The water's cold today." A young fish overhears and asks, "What's water?"