Scientific ACCURACIES in the Bible

[Drich]

Demonstrate that anyone has ever been (or will ever be) saved?

This is all too easy if your understanding of 'life' is limited one's mortal existance. for there are countless stories of people being 'saved' by the change of life style that usally is accompanied with belief in God.

Now if you want proof is salvation after this life then you have to accept that their is a God who sustains life after this one is over. Otherwise what is the point of this conversation?

[Tea Earl Grey Hot]

I would be interested in how Genenius came to the conclusion that it can mean "sphere."

They are not the only ones I have several hard copies and alll say sphere.. Maybe you can write a letter and find out.

Please share those entries complete with lexicon name, author, and year.

Look up the word compass in the english. It describes a curved circumference or, circumscribed space.

I did and didn't find any meaning of "circumference" or "circumscribed space" that would imply a three-dimensional object such as a sphere. Please share whatever definition you found of compass that you think might imply a sphere.

If we are looking at context we can not float between the Hebrew and english, we must pick one and seek clarity or establish context using one set of words. Here in the Hebrew the word in question Literally describes a circled circumfrance. The bibles that are traditionaly translated in english will Almost always give a direct translation rather than an interperated version. Unless you seek out an easy to read or understand version. Matter of fact, the ERV says shpere. The traditional versions will stick to a more literal interpertation and leave it to the reader to figure things out. Remember the bible (traditional transllations) were not written for the masses. There is alot more needed to understand what is on page that just a quick read or on page understanding of what is being communicated.

It still hasn't been shown that "circle of the earth" or "circled circumference" was suppose to be interpreted as sphere as oppose to a flat circle. Again, here are the reasons why it shouldn't be taken as "sphere"

1. It says that God "sits upon the circle" and "spreads heaven like a tent to dwell in."
2. Mesopotanian cultures also used this same phrase to describe the earth in an explicitly flat earth context:

And just as Mesopotamians spoke of the "circle of the sky," or "circle of heaven," Horowitz adds that they spoke in a similar fashion concerning the flat earth disk, calling it the "circle of the earth" or "circle of the lands," "circle of the four corners," "circle of the four winds," and "circle of the four (regions)." The author of the Babylonian "map of the world" even drew "the limit of the earth's surface as two concentric circles." ' And as we shall see, such phrases as "the circle of the earth" and the "circle of heaven" are just as much a part of biblical cosmology as they are Mesopotamian cosmology.

John W. Loftus. The Christian Delusion: Why Faith Fails (Kindle Locations 1392-1396). Kindle Edition.

3. Isaiah also described God as having "spread it [the earth] out" (Isaiah 42:5 and 44:24). The meaning of the hebrew word for "spread" in these verses is literally "to beat, stamp, beat out, spread out": http://concordances.org/hebrew/7554.htm

[The Grand Nudger]

This is all too easy if your understanding of 'life' is limited one's mortal existance. for there are countless stories of people being 'saved' by the change of life style that usally is accompanied with belief in God.

Now if you want proof is salvation after this life then you have to accept that their is a God who sustains life after this one is over. Otherwise what is the point of this conversation?

Complete asshattery right here. A god saving anyone would be clear-cut evidence of magic, which has never been presented by anyone at any time. "Saved" requires quotation marks because you want to play wordgames. Bullshit. No one's been saved. The point? There wont be any so long as you set yourself up for garbage like that last post. I've said it before and I'll say it again, you have nothing to offer.

[Taqiyya Mockingbird]

So, just to interject, I'm starting to think that maybe you feel that scriptures have it right somewhere, that you can point to this or that and say "see?".

Care to point me in the direction of a highlights reel? The earth being a sphere has been believed by other cultures (and sometimes by cultures that previously believed it was a turtle) throughout history. Not that any of them had any actual idea what the shape of the earth was, but, a broken clock is wrong twice a day.

When you thought it was wrong you all lined up and pointed to your 'translations' to dance around what you thought was a slain giant. Now that the bible is proven to be not wrong it's a broken clock.

Here is a simple principle for you. If you do not want to believe in God then simply don't. Stand on your own authority and simply say I do not want to belive in God and it is my choice that I don't. And Just leave it at that. You don't need a reason. Reasons are the beginning of a defense. If there is no God what is their to defend?

That might have been viable, if it were not for you assholes' propensity for pushing for your superstitions' influence in our lives and our secular laws and the lives of our children, and your constant attempts to infect us and our children with your disease of delusion.

[Drich]

Please share those entries complete with lexicon name, author, and year.

are you asking me to scan and post the pics?

I did and didn't find any meaning of "circumference" or "circumscribed space" that would imply a three-dimensional object such as a sphere. Please share whatever definition you found of compass that you think might imply a sphere.

Didn't look did you? Thought you'd just call my bluff?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/compass

1

a: boundary, circumference <within the compass of the city walls> b: a circumscribed space <within the narrow compass of 21 pages — V. L. Parrington> c: range, scope <the compass of my voice>


2

: a curved or roundabout course <a compass of seven days' journey — 2 Kings 3:9(Authorized Version)>

Adj: forming a curve : curved <a compass timber>

It still hasn't been shown that "circle of the earth" or "circled circumference" was suppose to be interpreted as sphere as oppose to a flat circle. Again, here are the reasons why it shouldn't be taken as "sphere"

Because Shape In This Passage Is Of Little Importance, Next To What Is Being Communicated Here!

1. It says that God "sits upon the circle" and "spreads heaven like a tent to dwell in."

To sit or To Rest on something in this context Means to Control. The Circle, or to Control the Entire Circumference/compass. That is why the word for as circle or Compass is being used here. Isaiah is not communicating SHAPE, He is describing the Complete control God has over the earth.

This is why I said you can not take 1/2 of an English translation and marry it to 1/2 of a Hebrew translation. Because in the Hebrew we are talking about Authority, and in the English you have twisted the passage to mean the prophet is communicating shape.

And just as Mesopotamians spoke of the "circle of the sky," or "circle of heaven," Horowitz adds that they spoke in a similar fashion concerning the flat earth disk, calling it the "circle of the earth" or "circle of the lands," "circle of the four corners," "circle of the four winds," and "circle of the four (regions)." The author of the Babylonian "map of the world" even drew "the limit of the earth's surface as two concentric circles." ' And as we shall see, such phrases as "the circle of the earth" and the "circle of heaven" are just as much a part of biblical cosmology as they are Mesopotamian cosmology.

John W. Loftus. The Christian Delusion: Why Faith Fails (Kindle Locations 1392-1396). Kindle Edition.

Again with the the deluded man's thoughts... I have shown twice now he has taken things out of context inorder to make a point. This guy has lost his integrity, and therefore can not formally represent scripture with any degree of accuracy.

3. Isaiah also described God as having "spread it [the earth] out" (Isaiah 42:5 and 44:24). The meaning of the Hebrew word for "spread" in these verses is literally "to beat, stamp, beat out, spread out": http://concordances.org/hebrew/7554.htm

so?

---

When you thought it was wrong you all lined up and pointed to your 'translations' to dance around what you thought was a slain giant. Now that the bible is proven to be not wrong it's a broken clock.

Here is a simple principle for you. If you do not want to believe in God then simply don't. Stand on your own authority and simply say I do not want to belive in God and it is my choice that I don't. And Just leave it at that. You don't need a reason. Reasons are the beginning of a defense. If there is no God what is their to defend?

That might have been viable, if it were not for you assholes' propensity for pushing for your superstitions' influence in our lives and our secular laws and the lives of our children, and your constant attempts to infect us and our children with your disease of delusion.

So.. your only defense is to push Your beliefs and morals onto us? To do exactly what it is you have accused us of doing? How is this not hypocrisy?

---

So, bottom line There is no direct Hebrew word for Sphere. The closest thing we have is the word Chuwg which communicates a circle and to encompass. To say the passage is only talking about shape is to not understand what is being communicated. However that said if you want to take just the literal interpertation of the translated word, then Chuwg is the cloest word Ancient Hebrews had to Sphere. For it give a shape and a direction (to surround or to encompass.)

[The Grand Nudger]

I can surround or encompass you in a rectangle, or a trapezoid, but nice try with the salvage job. If you'd like to blather on about encompassing that's fine, but we'll just have to strike it from the "hey did you know that the bible knew -insert bullshit claim here- before scientists did" list. I'm happy either way we go with it.

[Tea Earl Grey Hot]

Please share those entries complete with lexicon name, author, and year.

are you asking me to scan and post the pics?

Um, no, I'm not sure why you'd think that. Just type it up.

I did and didn't find any meaning of "circumference" or "circumscribed space" that would imply a three-dimensional object such as a sphere. Please share whatever definition you found of compass that you think might imply a sphere.

Didn't look did you? Thought you'd just call my bluff?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/compass

1

a: boundary, circumference <within the compass of the city walls> b: a circumscribed space <within the narrow compass of 21 pages — V. L. Parrington> c: range, scope <the compass of my voice>


2

: a curved or roundabout course <a compass of seven days' journey — 2 Kings 3:9(Authorized Version)>

Adj: forming a curve : curved <a compass timber>

I used two dictionaries and got the same basic definition as above. Still don't see anything implying 3-d shape.

You also need to show that "compass" is the correct translation over circle for "chug." You said earlier "Here in the Hebrew the word in question Literally describes a circled circumfrance [sic]." This is an assertion. You need to show why in this particular verse, it means "circled circumference" as opposed to simply "circle."

It still hasn't been shown that "circle of the earth" or "circled circumference" was suppose to be interpreted as sphere as oppose to a flat circle. Again, here are the reasons why it shouldn't be taken as "sphere"

Because Shape In This Passage Is Of Little Importance, Next To What Is Being Communicated Here!

It is of importance to us in analyzing the correctness of the Bible. Here it is describing the shape of the earth. Whether it describes it as being flat or a sphere is the matter here. If it is describing a flat earth, then you have a factual error in your holy bible. It doesn't matter how little important the shape is in the context of whatever you think is being communicated. If the shape described is wrong, then, supposing these scriptures are inspired by God, lying is taking place.

1. It says that God "sits upon the circle" and "spreads heaven like a tent to dwell in."

To sit or To Rest on something in this context Means to Control. The Circle, or to Control the Entire Circumference/compass. That is why the word for as circle or Compass is being used here. Isaiah is not communicating SHAPE, He is describing the Complete control God has over the earth.

This is why I said you can not take 1/2 of an English translation and marry it to 1/2 of a Hebrew translation. Because in the Hebrew we are talking about Authority, and in the English you have twisted the passage to mean the prophet is communicating shape.

You seem to be affirming a disjunct. You are saying that either the passage describes the shape of the earth, or it describes God's control of the earth. You then say it describes God's control so it can't be describing the shape of the earth. But these two are not mutually exclusive. I never said that the passage was meant only to describe the shape of the earth like some kind of primitive science book. I think it's doing both at the same time: it's both describing the shape of the earth and God's control over it.

"To sit or To Rest on something in this context Means to Control."

Sure it seems to, but it's using flat earth imagery in the process. The tent part of the verse is what does this because when you set a tent up, you set it up on flat ground.

And just as Mesopotamians spoke of the "circle of the sky," or "circle of heaven," Horowitz adds that they spoke in a similar fashion concerning the flat earth disk, calling it the "circle of the earth" or "circle of the lands," "circle of the four corners," "circle of the four winds," and "circle of the four (regions)." The author of the Babylonian "map of the world" even drew "the limit of the earth's surface as two concentric circles." ' And as we shall see, such phrases as "the circle of the earth" and the "circle of heaven" are just as much a part of biblical cosmology as they are Mesopotamian cosmology.

John W. Loftus. The Christian Delusion: Why Faith Fails (Kindle Locations 1392-1396). Kindle Edition.

Again with the the deluded man's thoughts... I have shown twice now he has taken things out of context inorder to make a point. This guy has lost his integrity, and therefore can not formally represent scripture with any degree of accuracy.

Firstly, this isn't actually Loftus writing. He was the editor of the book. Kindle app generated the reference incorrectly. The chapter this was from was written by Edward Babinski. And in this quote, he's summarizing another person's research from this book http://books.google.com/books/about/Meso...fl8BXpR0MC. Lastly, this part I quoted is the best evidence given thus far in this thread that "circle of the earth" was explicitly associated with flat earth cosmology.

3. Isaiah also described God as having "spread it [the earth] out" (Isaiah 42:5 and 44:24). The meaning of the Hebrew word for "spread" in these verses is literally "to beat, stamp, beat out, spread out": http://concordances.org/hebrew/7554.htm

so?

You don't spread, beat, or stamp something to make it a sphere. You do that to make it flat.

[hoppimike]

Well, it does certainly seem as though the Bible is referring to a flat circle. I am not 100% convinced and I do additionally think that Drich has something to offer to this conversation, but at the same time I don't see too much evidence for the spherical Earth suggestion in the Bible.

I think as it stands at the moment it does seem to be referring to a flat circle. Would be good to delve further though.

And man we're not even onto the next points yet though lol

[The Grand Nudger]

Well, in an effort to keep the ball rolling, on your next point. Washing your hands. How, exactly, is that a "scientific accuracy"? What is scientifically accurate in the statement "wash your hands"?

[Taqiyya Mockingbird]

[

So.. your only defense is to push Your beliefs and morals onto us? To do exactly what it is you have accused us of doing? How is this not hypocrisy?

Nice straw man. Typical of you x-tards to try to cast our pushing back against your superstitious bullshit as if it was pushing our beliefs (we have none) on you. But nice job of admitting that your pushing your shit on us is a Bad Thing.