Do you recognize that God gains pleasure in creating evil?

[Faith No More]

I'm going to ask you this question one more time, please answer truthfully if it's within you. Assuming (this is for your answer) God is real, would you really want Him to make you do everything His heart desires for you. Leading you around with a ring in your nose, kicking you in the direction He wants you to go, pushing you through every door you do not want to go through, is this the life that would be acceptable to you.

Asking me a question one more time requires you to have asked me before, and your question is a complete red herring to the topic at hand. I will, however, answer to the best of my ability so you don't claim I'm dodging you.

If god was real, and proven to be a loving god and not a malicious one, I would certainly do whatever this god wanted of me, even if I saw it as detrimental to my life. If I was convinced that this god had a good plan, I would follow it.

Now my question. What does this have to do at all with my question that you were responding to? (Which, by the way, you completely avoided)

[Drich]

I see that you do not deny his immorality or purposeless torture of souls.

Noope. For again 'morality' is whatever popular culture deems it to be. God has always been counter culture. (Yes even when/especially the culture focouses on Him)

Moral or not you will follow him eh. Hitler looked for people just like you.

Oh the irony, for it was THE Moral Obligation of every fighting age man in 1930's and 40's Germany to expell purge the Jewish threat from their nation. (According first to Hitler in Mein Kamph, and later supported by the work done in the consentration camps)

So, Again "Morality" is not the imperical standard in which you needs it to be for the sake of your arguement. For it differs from culture to culture and generation to generation. Your thinking of True or Godly righteousness. A standard in which all things are measured and it never changes. So for you to judge God 'immoral' is like a Nazi judging you 'immoral' for not ratting out or killing jews yourself. Your term based on your own authority.. Which only means as much as you can convince others to accept your standard.

[Brian37]

Oh boy, the old "Hitler" argument again. Please refer to my avatar as a response to such a petty and completely false argument full of multiple fallacies.

1. There is absolutely NO evidence that Hitler was an atheist and all one has to do is read "Mine Kompf" to know that. He makes references to God several times.And if you do a google search of pics of him you will find MANY of him standing in front of churches and next to holy people.

Not to mention the SS belt buckles had embossed on them "Got Mit Uns" German for "God is with us"

2. But even if I said "Yea he was an atheist", how would that make me want to be him?

The fallacy of guilt by association. So if a Christian molests a kid, that makes all Christians child molesters?

No, that would be like saying all men with mustaches love Hitler.

What people are doing when they bring up monsters like that is saying "If you don't believe in a god, then you are incapable of morality, and if you don't it will lead to people like him"

No, what led to people like him was the RELIGION of the state and appeal to authority. He was the ultimate and final authority.

Please don't throw stones at atheists when the very book you hold is all about appeal to authority with a figurehead is the final authority.

You cannot vote this god out of office. You cannot impeach him. You cannot leave him. He knows and sees everything you do. He does not have to ask for your consent for anything. If that is not the definition of a dictator, then I don't know what one is.

Now FYI, there is a term for when anyone brings up Hitler in an argument, even when about something else, say politics, the term for that is "Godwin's Law".

Godwin's law is when you have no argument you make a childish attempt to demonize the other side by equating them to Hitler.

[Drich]

1. There is absolutely NO evidence that Hitler was an atheist and all one has to do is read "Mine Kompf" to know that. He makes references to God several times.And if you do a google search of pics of him you will find MANY of him standing in front of churches and next to holy people.

So?

Not to mention the SS belt buckles had embossed on them "Got Mit Uns" German for "God is with us"

Complete faberication. Himler (The #2 man in the Nazi party) was in charge of the SS, and He employed every 'religious' sign symbol or enchantment he could find that he thought would give him an edge. Why else do you think the third reich used a swastika a Hindu, buddhist, Jainist symbol? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika
Or the viking runes of Victory to lable the SS http://www.vikingrune.com/2009/07/norse-...h-symbols/

2. But even if I said "Yea he was an atheist", how would that make me want to be him?

Hitler's religious views are not what are being discussed here. Morality is and how 'Morality' can shift from culture to culture is. For what was 'Moral' for a 1930's german citizen was not moral to people who lived in the allied countries. Which make the 'morality' of a people pretty much pointless. For if Germany won the war we would have a completely different view of Jews and what happened in 1940's germany.

The fallacy of guilt by association. So if a Christian molests a kid, that makes all Christians child molesters?

No, that would be like saying all men with mustaches love Hitler.

What people are doing when they bring up monsters like that is saying "If you don't believe in a god, then you are incapable of morality, and if you don't it will lead to people like him"

No, what led to people like him was the RELIGION of the state and appeal to authority. He was the ultimate and final authority.

Please don't throw stones at atheists when the very book you hold is all about appeal to authority with a figurehead is the final authority.

You cannot vote this god out of office. You cannot impeach him. You cannot leave him. He knows and sees everything you do. He does not have to ask for your consent for anything. If that is not the definition of a dictator, then I don't know what one is.

Now FYI, there is a term for when anyone brings up Hitler in an argument, even when about something else, say politics, the term for that is "Godwin's Law".

Godwin's law is when you have no argument you make a childish attempt to demonize the other side by equating them to Hitler.

It looks like someone draged out the soap box before he could be bothered to read my whole post. Maybe you could take a look at your advatar for me, and think about maybe trying to stay revelant, by reading what was written, and responding to that.

[Thor]

Hitler's religious views are not what are being discussed here. Morality is

Do you really want to get into an argument about morality when your god says it's perfectly permissable to own slaves?

[Epimethean]

That was before Jeebus Version 2.0, Thor.

[Thor]

That was before Jeebus Version 2.0, Thor.

Doesn't matter. Why would a loving god EVER say that it's okay to keep your fellow human beings as chattel?

[Godscreated]

I'm going to ask you this question one more time, please answer truthfully if it's within you. Assuming (this is for your answer) God is real, would you really want Him to make you do everything His heart desires for you. Leading you around with a ring in your nose, kicking you in the direction He wants you to go, pushing you through every door you do not want to go through, is this the life that would be acceptable to you.

Asking me a question one more time requires you to have asked me before, and your question is a complete red herring to the topic at hand. I will, however, answer to the best of my ability so you don't claim I'm dodging you.

If god was real, and proven to be a loving god and not a malicious one, I would certainly do whatever this god wanted of me, even if I saw it as detrimental to my life. If I was convinced that this god had a good plan, I would follow it.

Now my question. What does this have to do at all with my question that you were responding to? (Which, by the way, you completely avoided)

I did not avoid it, I answered it, why should God stop Satan's fall when He hasn't stopped your's. Just like my sin, your's and everyone else sin contributes to the problems on this world. By the way I didn't say that I knew to blame Satan, I said atheist need to. I blame my self for listening to and acting upon his temptation and my own failures.

[Epimethean]

So we're back to the "god is a big, lazy bastard with poor planning and worse execution" admission.

[Faith No More]

By the way I didn't say that I knew to blame Satan, I said atheist need to.

Really? Here is a direct quote.

It's funny in a way and pitiful in others, atheist call christians stupid and deluded, yet we are the ones that are intelligent enough to know who to blame.

I can't tell if you're being willfully disingenuous or if you cannot convert short term memory into long term.