Creating Christ

[JML]

Any thoughts on this book?

Book Review
Creating Christ: How Roman Emperors Invented Christianity
by James S Valliant & Warren Fahy 2018
full review of

Administrator Notice
Link removed per 30/30 rule.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

Well, someone’s off to a roaring start…

Boru

[Fake Messiah]

Everyone is creating Christ. It's a living myth. Like when DaVinci Code popularised the myth that Jesus was part of the Merovingian dynasty. Or people who believe that Jesus lived in India or even Japan, etc.

[Jehanne]

Have not read the book. Professor Bart Ehrman has developed similar ideas.

[Angrboda]

It puts the thoughts in the post or it gets the hose.

[Jehanne]

In my opinion, here's what happened.  Jesus of Nazareth existed as a historical individual, but, he was a crank, a religious loon.  The argument for this is simple, and so, let's begin here:

Wikipedia -- List of largest cities throughout history

If you don't want to click on all of these (damn) links, I don't blame you.  And, so, just take my word for things (which, if you wish, you could just easily verify on your own).  (Wikipedia is a treasure trove of information, isn't it; well, at least I think so!)

Some ancient cities were big, and the ones that I am interested in were those big cities during Jesus' lifetime, namely, Alexandria in Egypt, and Rome, both at 1 million human beings.  A city of 1 million people is a BIG city; just for comparison, here's the Top 10 cities in the United States:

Wikipedia -- List of United States cities by population

At #10, San Jose is just under 1M individuals.

Now, for literacy in the ancient World.  I am going to copy & paste this one, as it is very informative:

Until recently it was thought that the majority of people were illiterate in the classical world.[70] However, recent work challenges this perception.[71][72] Anthony DiRenzo asserts that Roman society was "a civilization based on the book and the register", and "no one, either free or slave, could afford to be illiterate".[73] Similarly Dupont points out, "The written word was all around them, in both public and private life: laws, calendars, regulations at shrines, and funeral epitaphs were engraved in stone or bronze. The Republic amassed huge archives of reports on every aspect of public life".[74] The imperial civilian administration produced masses of documentation used in judicial, fiscal and administrative matters as did the municipalities. The army kept extensive records relating to supply and duty rosters and submitted reports. Merchants, shippers, and landowners (and their personal staffs) especially of the larger enterprises must have been literate.

Wikipedia -- Classical and post-classical literacy

Now, here's the argument:

Of all the many thousands of human beings who could have mentioned, in writing, on parchment and/or stone, the existence of Jesus of Nazareth, no one did.

Why?  Because, Jesus of Nazareth was not worth mentioning.  Those who could have mentioned his existence realized who he was, a religious nut & crank, who was not worth mentioning.

The Apostle Paul, an apocalyptist who was likely suffering from a Messiah complex, was the one who started the Christian Legend.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

In my opinion, here's what happened.  Jesus of Nazareth existed as a historical individual, but, he was a crank, a religious loon.  The argument for this is simple, and so, let's begin here:

Wikipedia -- List of largest cities throughout history

If you don't want to click on all of these (damn) links, I don't blame you.  And, so, just take my word for things (which, if you wish, you could just easily verify on your own).  (Wikipedia is a treasure trove of information, isn't it; well, at least I think so!)

Some ancient cities were big, and the ones that I am interested in were those big cities during Jesus' lifetime, namely, Alexandria in Egypt, and Rome, both at 1 million human beings.  A city of 1 million people is a BIG city; just for comparison, here's the Top 10 cities in the United States:

Wikipedia -- List of United States cities by population

At #10, San Jose is just under 1M individuals.

Now, for literacy in the ancient World.  I am going to copy & paste this one, as it is very informative:

Until recently it was thought that the majority of people were illiterate in the classical world.[70] However, recent work challenges this perception.[71][72] Anthony DiRenzo asserts that Roman society was "a civilization based on the book and the register", and "no one, either free or slave, could afford to be illiterate".[73] Similarly Dupont points out, "The written word was all around them, in both public and private life: laws, calendars, regulations at shrines, and funeral epitaphs were engraved in stone or bronze. The Republic amassed huge archives of reports on every aspect of public life".[74] The imperial civilian administration produced masses of documentation used in judicial, fiscal and administrative matters as did the municipalities. The army kept extensive records relating to supply and duty rosters and submitted reports. Merchants, shippers, and landowners (and their personal staffs) especially of the larger enterprises must have been literate.

Wikipedia -- Classical and post-classical literacy

Now, here's the argument:

Of all the many thousands of human beings who could have mentioned, in writing, on parchment and/or stone, the existence of Jesus of Nazareth, no one did.

Why?  Because, Jesus of Nazareth was not worth mentioning.  Those who could have mentioned his existence realized who he was, a religious nut & crank, who was not worth mentioning.

The Apostle Paul, an apocalyptist who was likely suffering from a Messiah complex, was the one who started the Christian Legend.

Another possible reason that Jesus wasn’t mentioned in contemporary accounts is that he wasn’t there. Even if Jesus was simply a local religious nut, it seems pretty odd that - given the population and literacy level of Judea - no one wrote about him. Not just government records, but even personal missives. There’s simply no, ‘Greetings from Jerusalem, cousin! Things have been pretty quiet here, although there’s this local loon who thinks he’s the Son of God going round pestering people about sin and redemption. So, how are Julia and the kids?’ 

There’s - literally and literarily - nothing.

If Jesus was an historical figure in a heavily literate society, it seems as if there should be something.

Boru

[AFTT47]

Everyone is creating Christ. It's a living myth. Like when DaVinci Code popularised the myth that Jesus was part of the Merovingian dynasty. Or people who believe that Jesus lived in India or even Japan, etc.

The Davinci Code is fiction.

[Ranjr]

According to Rene Salm, author of The Myth of Nazareth:  The Invented Town of Jesus, archeological evidence suggests Nazareth didn't exist until after the Jewish War, around 70 AD.

[BrianSoddingBoru4]

According to Rene Salm, author of The Myth of Nazareth:  The Invented Town of Jesus, archeological evidence suggests Nazareth didn't exist until after the Jewish War, around 70 AD.

Rene Salm is wrong. Not that it matters all that much.

Boru