Illegal downloading

[Kyuuketsuki]

Someone who argues that something shouldn't be a crime is not necessarily a criminal, as my example showed. If Meatball is actually downloading music, then of course, he is a criminal, but saying that "because he argues that it shouldn't be a crime, he is a criminal" (which is what you said in the above quote) is wrong.

My bad ... I was arguing on the basis of what he admitted earlier, that he does d/load music illegally.

Kyu

[Tiberius]

Someone who argues that something shouldn't be a crime is not necessarily a criminal, as my example showed. If Meatball is actually downloading music, then of course, he is a criminal, but saying that "because he argues that it shouldn't be a crime, he is a criminal" (which is what you said in the above quote) is wrong.

My bad ... I was arguing on the basis of what he admitted earlier, that he does d/load music illegally.

Kyu

Ok, well then I'm in full agreement with you

[Meatball]

I can't say that downloading music is morally wrong.

If the pro-copyright movement could have their way, you'd be paying every time you heard a song. It's beyond protecting artists. It's just an absurd position and it's a result of the commercialization of art.

Is charging a woman $80,000 for sharing a data copy of a song morally sound? $80,000 a song for 24 songs. That's likely twice her yearly income, per song. Is that moral? Who's the victim here?

[Kyuuketsuki]

I can't say that downloading music is morally wrong

And you're entitled to say so however actually downloading music illegally is a crime and, in a rights-based society, immoral.

Kyu

[Samson]

Moral or not, charging 80,000 dollars per song is absolutely wrong and unjust. Have a reasonable "Fine" do time, whatever...but fining her that amount is not right.

There is no amount of reasoning that anyone can give me to justify that amount per song. I don't give a damn if it's by your most treasured favorite song writer or singer of all time.

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

And you're entitled to say so however actually downloading music illegally is a crime and, in a rights-based society, immoral.

Umm,Kyu, certainly entitled to say, but I'm not sure that dog will hunt. The claim seems to be illegal=immoral. [if society says so] Society does not dictate my personal moral values and never has.


It's common for things to be quite legal but considered immoral by at least by segments of the community,or illegal but considered moral.(putting aside self interested rationalistion,if that's possible)

I acknowledge that copyright violation is illegal in most countries. Interestingly,NOT traditionally in communist countries,which do not recognise intellectual property rights. Today the PRC does officially ,but is still pretty casual about policing pirated music etc and reverse engineering.

I do not acknowledge that digital piracy is immoral per se.

[Kyuuketsuki]

Umm,Kyu, certainly entitled to say, but I'm not sure that dog will hunt. The claim seems to be illegal=immoral. [if society says so] Society does not dictate my personal moral values and never has.

1. Morality is social
   
2. In a rights-based society (democratic I assume by default) laws tend to reflect morality (not absolutely but tend to) therefore illegal actions tend to be largely immoral.

Kyu

[Rob]

The copyright laws are a little harsh but a lot of laws are set like that as to allow the authorities discretion to modify their action on a case by case bases. It might be classed as illegally broadcasting copyright material to play a song on loud speaker. However the law doesn't exist to try to prevent this. It exists to stop people taking mick.

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

Umm,Kyu, certainly entitled to say, but I'm not sure that dog will hunt. The claim seems to be illegal=immoral. [if society says so] Society does not dictate my personal moral values and never has.

1. Morality is social
   
2. In a rights-based society (democratic I assume by default) laws tend to reflect morality (not absolutely but tend to) therefore illegal actions tend to be largely immoral.

Kyu

TEND to.Nice evasion. I think that argument is more likely in small communitie,say in agrarian societies. Les likely in industrial societies with huge urban populations where dissent is at least tolerated.


EG Within mine: it is not usually illegal to lie, to sleep with another's spouse, nor to be be emotionally unkind to others,say to a handicapped person,or one's parent's. It's perfectly legal to lust after the spouse or possessions of others.It's perfectly legal to be callous and indifferent to the feelings and suffering of others,even to derive pleasure from the suffering of others (A national past time in Germany,they call it "schadenfreude")

Sexuality/sexual conduct: Abortion: Legal but considered immoral by many. Homosexual activity;legal but considered immoral by many,same for premarital sex.

Business conduct:a lot of business conduct is perfectly legal,but considered immoral by many.EG most advertising is dishonest/manipulative [immoral] in some way,at least by hyperbole or omission,but not illegal.

An egoist, this is my position on morality: The base of morality is pragmatism and self interest. Codified law is the formalised self protection of the interests of the status quo. This is certainly reflected in moral codes such as those found in major religions. However,this rarely meshes smoothly with individual morality as it is lived. Individual morality is based on individual self interest and is far more fluid than most people like to admit.

I have nothing further to say on this topic. I guess we may need to agree to differ,which is fine. I don't claim my view is right,only that it's mine and suits me.

[Kyuuketsuki]

1. Morality is social
   
2. In a rights-based society (democratic I assume by default) laws tend to reflect morality (not absolutely but tend to) therefore illegal actions tend to be largely immoral.

TEND to.Nice evasion. I think that argument is more likely in small communitie,say in agrarian societies. Les likely in industrial societies with huge urban populations where dissent is at least tolerated.

Not an evasion and whether you give a damn or not my opinion of you has dropped because you said it so I'll back out and leave it at that.

Kyu