Sam Harris at the Global Atheist Convention

[Tempus]

I think you've been put here to test my faith, Brian.

[Angrboda]

[Justtristo]

I have been doing some thinking on and off about this particular talk by Sam Harris. In particular when he discussed about the fear of death people have and the need for people to overcome. Then I remembered a conversation I had with an Evangelical friend of mine back in 2010.

The conversation we had was about an appearance by Richard Dawkins on an Australian live panel debate show called Q&A. At the end of the program the audience was quizzed about their opinion about what would happen to us after death. The results were that most of them believed in an afterlife of some sort. My Evangelical friend said that result encouraged him, because to him it showed that the populace was ‘ripe for the harvest’ (to be converted).

Lately I have come to think my friend is right, because if people weren’t afraid of death. The appeal of religions such as Christianity would be dramatically reduced, because these religions promise life after death to people who are afraid of their deaths.

[Tempus]

Lately I have come to think my friend is right, because if people weren’t afraid of death. The appeal of religions such as Christianity would be dramatically reduced, because these religions promise life after death to people who are afraid of their deaths.

As someone (I forget who!) once said: "in order to sell salvation, you first have to sell damnation."

[Angrboda]

I think this conclusion depends on a simplistic and poorly evidenced theory of the nature of religion.

[Epimethean]

Not anymore. Two thousand years ago, you might have had a point.

[Justtristo]

I think this conclusion depends on a simplistic and poorly evidenced theory of the nature of religion.

Well Sam Harris is a neurospsychologist and there have been studies done to test the hypothesis that that the fear of death motivates religious commitment, and that it may be alleviated by assurances about an afterlife. I have referenced a couple of peer reviewed articles about these studies.

Kahoe, R. D., & Dunn, R. F. (1976). "The fear of death and religious attitudes and behavior". Journal for the Scientific Study of Religion 14 (4): 379–382

Wink, P. (2006). "Who is afraid of death? Religiousness, spirituality, and death anxiety in late adulthood". Journal of Religion, Spirituality, & Aging 18 (2): 93–110

[goddamnit]

Even Victor Stinger in his book "The New Atheism" Stinger addresses why even Harris views on Buddhism and spirituality are as much woo as any other.

I put a lot of effort into meditating and reading about mindfulness over the past few days. I did it because Harris had a good sales pitch for it, but I do not want to put effort into a false hope and find out it is bullshit later. I would rather know now.

What exactly did Victor Stenger say? Was it a criticism of Buddhism in general or specifically Sam Harris's views? Will you please type up the part you are referring to? Which chapter and page number? Hard copy or soft copy? I am on a quest for self-improvement and could really use this information.

[Brian37]

Even Victor Stinger in his book "The New Atheism" Stinger addresses why even Harris views on Buddhism and spirituality are as much woo as any other.

I put a lot of effort into meditating and reading about mindfulness over the past few days. I did it because Harris had a good sales pitch for it, but I do not want to put effort into a false hope and find out it is bullshit later. I would rather know now.

What exactly did Victor Stenger say? Was it a criticism of Buddhism in general or specifically Sam Harris's views? Will you please type up the part you are referring to? Which chapter and page number? Hard copy or soft copy? I am on a quest for self-improvement and could really use this information.

Read the book. It's main topic claim is that science DOES have something to say about god claims. But it has a chapter that deals with the history of god claims and religious traditions in which he address all sorts of labels including Buddhism, to demonstrate that human morality is evolutionary and not label based, regardless if the religion has god claims or not. He addresses the big Abraham three, as well as Janism(sp) Taoism and others.

It doesn't even take a scientist to understand this. If the layperson can see that every human has eyes and legs and arms, why wouldn't we be subject to the same emotions and actions both good and bad?

When you add to that question the scientific fact that we are ALL from the same evolutionary DNA past, the picture is crystal clear. Religious traditions have never been a requirement to make babies and that is the only thing evolution requires. Our species in it's most current form was around long before any written language and even since, religions have come and gone and morphed into newer ones.

Religious traditions are born out of our evolutionary pattern seeking and grouping for safety in numbers. But that is merely a placebo, that can be false but have a real benefit to lead to reproduction. Much like the Egyptians falsely for 3,000 years believed the sun was a god. It only works in a placebo sense, but the sun was never a god.

All I can say is read the book. "God The Failed Hypothesis" is also another book by Stenger I would recomend.

"The God Delusion" By Richard Dawkins as well. All these books go into detail without getting to complicated for the layperson, as to why humans believe false things.

[5thHorseman]

For those with a Kindle, buy his essay lying or lies. Only 26 pages, very good.