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RE: jack kevorkian and jenna jamison
July 17, 2012 at 3:13 pm
As for #2... I can't fathom why prostitution is illegal. A woman can be a complete nympho and have sex with multiple guys every night.... and it's perfectly legal. But if the same woman then accepts money from these guys.... it's suddenly illegal! There is no other thing in existence that is legal to give away but illegal to sell. It makes no sense! Plus, if prostitution were legal it could be regulated and taxed. You could have zoning laws where brothels could be located in certain parts of town, away from schools, parks and such. Kind of like how sex shops are regulated. The girls would also be required to have regular medical exams which would greatly decrease the incidence of STDs. The only objection is from stuck up assholes who would say, "That's immoral!"
And I haven't even mentioned the irony of police, judges and politicians who legislate and enforce laws dealing with prostitution and then use prostitutes themselves!
Science flies us to the moon and stars. Religion flies us into buildings.
God allowed 200,000 people to die in an earthquake. So what makes you think he cares about YOUR problems?
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RE: jack kevorkian and jenna jamison
July 17, 2012 at 4:09 pm
(This post was last modified: July 17, 2012 at 4:12 pm by Autumnlicious.)
Counter argument to #1:
What about people who are violently emotionally distraught and "want to die"?
What about histrionics (*cough cough*)? They want to die as a matter of their emotional lows.
The right to die must be balanced with as many barriers to ensure the one who will die is of compos mentis.
I am calling everyone prior posting here out -- you're flat of fucking wrong with "my body, my life" or simply "freedom of choice" with regards to suicide as a thought pattern. Utterly fucking selfish.
Unless you're considering a very isolated, independent set of circumstances that are disentangled, it's not your life.
Why?
If someone's depending on you, you're taking away from them. If you're the current linchpin of an entity, you're no longer making decisions for just yourself.
So, actually, the right to die is something to grant only after ensuring compos mentis and dependants will not be harmed.
#2 -- as long as the participants can leave like any other profession and are participating of their own free will, sure.
Slave to the Patriarchy no more
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RE: jack kevorkian and jenna jamison
July 17, 2012 at 4:17 pm
(This post was last modified: July 17, 2012 at 4:29 pm by Tempus.)
A morality that has nothing to do with alleviating suffering seems silly to me. The people who support the war on drugs, the outlawing of prostitution, advocating against contraception, etc., seem to scarcely measure their principled intentions against reality.
In regards to suicide I think the individual needs to be well informed and thinking at least somewhat straight (as opposed to highly emotional). I think sometimes people are too keen to say "it's their decision," but we could equally say that of children about to do stupid stuff like walk off a cliff or light themselves on fire. Someone who is severely depressed is compromised / vulnerable and liable to make emotionally motivated decisions. I'm only speaking from my own experience though.
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RE: jack kevorkian and jenna jamison
July 17, 2012 at 4:19 pm
(This post was last modified: July 17, 2012 at 4:19 pm by Faith No More.)
Gotta agree with Syn on this one. Assisted suicide is not something that should be an option for everyone. It should only be an option if one can be proven to be of sound mental capacity while completely understanding the consequences of their actions, and that one does not have a person that is completely dependant upon them.
As for fucking for money, more power to you if that's your thing.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
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RE: jack kevorkian and jenna jamison
July 17, 2012 at 4:31 pm
(This post was last modified: July 17, 2012 at 4:38 pm by jackman.)
i agree that sometimes suicide is selfish. i'd even venture to say that most times it shouldn't be an option - however, when considering "do not resuscitate" orders and right to die views, there are instances when it's a viable option.
there are instances where someone is depressed and that isn't grounds alone, imo. i certainly will consider a dnr order to be placed on me in the instance that i have no functional use of my body or brain. at that point, i'm just costing my family stress and insane amounts of money to keep me breathing and my heart beating - to me, it's not worth it, if what i have is irreversible. to those that have terminal illnesses, are incapacitated and in pain beyond medicinal relief, i think it becomes your personal option. if that's selfish, then say the family needs to get over it.
often times when a family member is in the hospital battling cancer, for instance, and they're at a level 4 or 5 and beyond operable, it's just a matter of time. i've been in the hospital talking with my grandmother in that very predicament. she told me that everyone calls and a few even come to see her and they all tell her to "be strong" and "keep fighting". she said it's easy for them to say because they weren't the ones who were dealing with chemo, radiation and meds for the past 3 years almost daily. she was tired of fighting and wanted to give up. i think it's selfish of family to make someone hold on.
(July 17, 2012 at 4:09 pm)Moros Synackaon Wrote: Counter argument to #1:
What about people who are violently emotionally distraught and "want to die"?
What about histrionics (*cough cough*)? They want to die as a matter of their emotional lows.
The right to die must be balanced with as many barriers to ensure the one who will die is of compos mentis.
concerning those with the violently emotional distress and the histrionics, i agree.
they can land a rover on mars, yet they still have to stick a human finger up my ass to do a prostate exam?! - ricky gervais
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RE: jack kevorkian and jenna jamison
July 17, 2012 at 9:34 pm
(July 17, 2012 at 2:06 pm)jackman Wrote: since there's so much talk of morality going on lately, i have two topics to address that i think about when i hear people with such firm beliefs on right/wrong. imo, these are two issues that most people can't speak on from a first-person perspective, so different opinions on them are interesting to me.
1. how do you feel about self-assisted suicide?
2. what do you think of people who work in the sex industry?
1. I am in favour and livid that currently the option is not open to me in Australia should I decide I want to leave.
2. Put it this way; I have far more respect for sex workers than for politicians,clergy, bankers, anyone involved in advertising or the tobacco industry for example. At least a sex worker fucks you literally.
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RE: jack kevorkian and jenna jamison
July 17, 2012 at 9:45 pm
I think assisted suicide should be legalized and regulated.
I think people who work in the sex industry should have the same amount of respect as anyone else who earns their living honestly.
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RE: jack kevorkian and jenna jamison
July 17, 2012 at 10:21 pm
1. No one should be able to tell you when you are allowed to die unless you give them that right.
2. Do whatever you want with your body. I might prefer something different for certain people, but I have absolutely nothing against it for the general population. To be fair, I don't have anything against it at all, I just have preferences when it comes my family. Big expectations and all of that.
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RE: jack kevorkian and jenna jamison
July 18, 2012 at 4:42 am
(This post was last modified: July 18, 2012 at 5:14 am by Darth.)
(July 17, 2012 at 3:13 pm)Thor Wrote: As for #2... I can't fathom why prostitution is illegal. A woman can be a complete nympho and have sex with multiple guys every night.... and it's perfectly legal. But if the same woman then accepts money from these guys.... it's suddenly illegal! There is no other thing in existence that is legal to give away but illegal to sell. It makes no sense! Plus, if prostitution were legal it could be regulated and taxed. You could have zoning laws where brothels could be located in certain parts of town, away from schools, parks and such. Kind of like how sex shops are regulated. The girls would also be required to have regular medical exams which would greatly decrease the incidence of STDs. The only objection is from stuck up assholes who would say, "That's immoral!"
And I haven't even mentioned the irony of police, judges and politicians who legislate and enforce laws dealing with prostitution and then use prostitutes themselves!
There is another anomaly, blackmail, lets say I get proof of you doing something embarrassing but not illegal.
-I can shout it from the rooftops, tell anybody and everybody, and if your famous enough i can even sell it to newspapers and magazines.
-I can also remain quiet and not tell anybody.
-I'm fairly sure you can also offer me stuff to get me to shut up, so long as it's you who initiates the trade
-or I can be bound by a prior confidentially agreement you made me sign before I started working for you or whatever, and discretion comes at a premium.
-But I can't come to you with the offer of silence for stuff after the fact.
I can keep silent, but I cant offer to sell you my silence after the fact.
Sex, money, whatever, so long as everybody is a consenting adult, go nuts.
Suicide, assisted suicide... same thing.
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RE: jack kevorkian and jenna jamison
July 18, 2012 at 9:17 am
I find it odd that all the discussions come down to is whether these things should be legal or not - not if they are actually moral. There are many other things - such as lying, cheating - which are accepted as immoral, but are still legally permitted because in those cases the underlying freedom permitting them trumps the question of morality. The same can be said of these two subjects - they should be legally permissible, irrespective of any immorality.
1. I consider suicide to be conditionally immoral - the condition being whether there is any value left for the person in their life or not. Things such as happiness, pleasure, self-esteem, satisfaction etc. are values which make life worth living and if there is a possibility of having these things in your life, then it has value. However, if the only possibility is the opposite, that there is certainty of only pain and suffering, then suicide would be the moral option.
2. As for prostitution, I do consider it generally immoral (any specific circumstances not withstanding). I have never been able to consider sex as a pure physical need without any underlying psychological implications. Romantic notions aside, I think that one's sexual partner should be the embodiment of the qualities they find desirable - not just physical, but mental and emotional as well. To do away with the other parts and treating it as a simple physical act is devaluing to the self. That, in my book, makes it immoral.
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