Atheism +

[TaraJo]

Atheism+, like Freethought Blogs, is just a massive circle jerk.

I've noticed a lot of that in online social activism circles in general.

I want to know how they can call themselves social activists when most of society is totally out of touch with them.

[thesummerqueen]

Just like many social activists before them - it makes them feel good.

It's another reason I really like the Roosevelt family as a model to pattern after - they actually got down into the nitty gritty of the places they were trying to help.

[Mister Agenda]

Who is Nick Carrier and why should I give a fuck what he says?


Going by Summer's quote, he comes across as an obnoxious cunt,with fascist undertones..

It's actually Dick Carrier. Really.

---

If it weren't for the fascist exclusion tactics, the only problem I would have with Atheism+ is the name. We spend enough time explaining that all atheism is, is not believing in Gods. I know the nuance should be obvious, but it will be no time before people are saying 'if atheism is just not believing in any Gods, what about Atheism+?'. Then it will drag on. 'Bright' was a poor choice, but at least it wasn't confusing, just smug.

[Faith No More]

One of the bigger issues I have with Atheism+ is its seems to create political divisiveness where none is needed and could be detrimental. Atheists, by their nature, are going to be secularists, but not all secularists are going to be atheists. So, why alienate a group of people that could potentially be a political ally, especially since much of a political movement's power is dictated by its membership?

[thesummerqueen]

Because some people can't stand to play in the same sandbox as others. Rather than punishing the person who's kicking over all the sandcastles, they demand a whole other sandbox be made for them.

[TaraJo]

Ok, I found their site and their forum. Tempted to troll, really am, except that there are a few people I suspect will be there that will spot me at a moment's notice and call me on it.

The rules, though..... some of them are just absurd!

http://atheismplus.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6

My issues with the rules.... where do I start?

Don't use insults that target a group: Many insults are hurtful to those besides the target. Slurs such as "cunt", "retarded", "she looks like a man" or "he's probably autistic" imply that the female body, disabled people, transsexual people or autistic people are inherently contemptible or amusing. All slurs that use an entire group of people as a pejorative are prohibited.

Uhm..... ok, what if you actually think someone is autistic? Or you suspect that someone is transsexual? Are you not supposed to talk about it and just leave it as the big, white elephant in the middle of the room, everyone knowing it's there but nobody talking about it?

Provide forewarning of disturbing content: Disturbing stories or graphic imagery can induce flashbacks or panic attacks in some people. Whenever such content is posted, it must always be preceded with a clear warning.

That's a little subjective if you ask me. I mean, something as simple and non offensive as video games or music videos or fashion magazines aren't offensive at all to me, but I've heard some people get really worked up over those things. I mean, if you have to warn people for upsetting materials, do you get a little bit of leeway over especially sensitive people or do you have to walk on eggshells at all times?

Don't say "don't feed the trolls": There are many reasons why responding to a deliberately provocative comment is the right thing to do. For example, it may be necessary to refute a believable lie or to challenge a particular prejudice. Replying to a thoughtful rebuttal with that tedious cliché is patronizing, and dismisses other people's concerns as unimportant. Bear in mind that what may appear to be trivial insults to you, may be deeply hurtful comments to someone else.

Oh, man, I've done some trolling and when people give lines like this, you know they're going to be a perfect trolling victim. This one bit is the main reason the forum would be trolling gold.

Don't say "not all X are like that": When someone complains about a serious problem, it is rarely helpful to complain that the scope of the problem has not been delineated with mathematical precision. For example, if someone gives an account of sexual harassment, replying with “not all men are like that” gives the impression that you care more about being vaguely implicated, than you do about the actual harassment.

Meh. Kinda questionable and/or silly, but when you take it in the context of some of their other rules.....

Don't use insults that target a group: Many insults are hurtful to those besides the target. Slurs such as "cunt", "retarded", "she looks like a man" or "he's probably autistic" imply that the female body, disabled people, transsexual people or autistic people are inherently contemptible or amusing. All slurs that use an entire group of people as a pejorative are prohibited.

or

Harassment is prohibited: Offensive comments based on race, nationality, age, sex, sexual orientation, gender identity, physical appearance, mental health or disability are prohibited. Vigorous criticism of religious belief is permitted, but offensive comments based on religious identity are prohibited.

So, let me see if I understand this: you're not supposed to make offensive language against entire groups, but if someone does, you're not supposed to say anything about it or be offended. Sound about right? I call bullshit.

The reality is, there are branches of feminism that specifically encourage their members to be atheists on the basis that religion has been used to justify misogyny. I can't say I disagree, but when these people tend to come along, they're feminists (or some kind of general social activist that ties in with feminism) first and atheists second. Which is to say, I've heard a lot of the say some really absurd thing and defend them with feminist terminology and buzzwords. The problem is that they're usually rational and reasonable, at least in talks about the supernatural, but when discussing social issues, they can be just as fundamental as Rick Santorum. That's hard to deal with.

They had an article on Atheism+ on The Raw story. I like them less now that I'm reading up on them, which is putting them really REALLY low.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/09/02/at...sults-fly/

[Faith No More]

PZ Myers, soft-spoken in person but trenchant in print, said of A+ critics:

“It really isn’t a movement about exclusion, but about recognising the impact of the real nature of the universe on human affairs. And if you don’t agree with any of that – and this is the only ‘divisive’ part – then you’re an asshole. I suggest you form your own label, ‘Asshole Atheists”, and own it, proudly. I promise not to resent it or cry about joining it. I just had a thought: maybe the anti-Atheist+ people are sad because they don’t have a cool logo. So I made one for the Asshole Atheists:A*”

I think people that criticize Atheism+ really ought to own the label 'Asshole Atheists' to highlight the absurdity of being labeled an 'asshole' by a so-called tolerant movement simply for disagreeing with them.

"And if you don't agree with any of that...then you're an asshole."

That's fine with me. I rather be an asshole than a fascist fuck.

[Red Celt]

One of the things that I love about atheism is that it truly incorporates such a wide spectrum of people. Well, we all start as atheists, so it stands to reason that it can include every possible mindset on the planet. Against that great diversity, a minority sub-set insist on setting up their own club... and not just any club... Atheism PLUS, because it's basically like atheism... but better. Right? I wonder how long it will be before they refer to everyone who isn't in their sub-group "atheists MINUS". Yeah, minus your dictatorial tyranny... meh!

I've encountered such people before in the skeptical-branch of the online community. They are incredibly cliquey and self-aggrandizing. The feminism meme has been getting increasing prominence... readily adopted by the bloggers on FTB. It's a tiny minority of the greater group of people who consider themselves as atheists.

On the plus side (pun intended) it's good that such people label themselves like that. It makes it easier to direct my misanthropy at the fascist fucks.

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

The feminism meme has been getting increasing prominence... readily adopted by the bloggers on FTB.

I'll say! Recently, I was accused of being "a part of the international gynophobic zeitgeist", just because I referred (accurately) to my ex wife as ' crune punt.' Besides, I have always been a gynophile.

[Red Celt]

I think that they've missed an opportunity with their logo. I knocked-up a more accurate version:-