The paradox of acceptance vs rejection in secular settings

[Vincenzo Vinny G.]

I don't know how many of you read the NYT. But an interesting article came out recently, suggesting that foreigners are more comfortable around people of religion than atheists.

In particular, in college. Link:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/03/educat...mbers.html

Among some interesting quotes:

“Here, people are more religious, even if they’re not Muslim, and I am comfortable with that,” said Ms. Alhamad, an undergraduate in civil engineering, as several other Muslim women gathered in the student center nodded in agreement. “I’m more comfortable talking to a Christian than an atheist.”

Correctly or not, many of them say they believe that they are more accepted than they would be at secular schools.

“I like the fact that there’s faith, even if it’s not my faith, and I feel my faith is respected,” said Maha Haroon, a pre-med undergraduate at Creighton University in Omaha, who was born in Pakistan and grew up in the United States. “I don’t have to leave my faith at home when I come to school.”

And often, they are asked why they attend a Catholic school.

“I tell people the atmosphere is very warm and supportive,” Ms. Issa said. “I feel accepted here, and that’s what matters.”

In the end, should we care that the Cathols are doing something right? ARE they doing something right? It seems to me a contentious issue. On one hand, they're religious. Eww. On the other, the fact that they are embraced, respected, and seemingly live a more satisfied life in a religiously conservative setting....it's unsettling.

It means, for these kind of people, a perfect society is reached not by appealing to secular liberal values, but secular conservative values. This is a very important distinction I'm making here. And it rests on the fact that these Muslim women feel rejected by secular liberal values. This is very striking because it's the exact opposite of why these secular liberal values exist. On the other hand, what about secular conservative values? It's a concept that makes no sense. But it's clearly in play in these Catholic universities, is it not?

Can secular conservative values help the atheist movement? Aboukabary yallah, we can have a more comforting, respectable, conservative yet secular academic arena for more Muslims and slowly embrace them into atheism. The key is seeing that some cultures actually find liberal values offensive and inhospitable.

[The Grand Nudger]

Value judgements differ from culture to culture. I don't think this has as much to do with liberal/conservative as it does religious/secular. But that's mho.

[Vincenzo Vinny G.]

As an addendum to my original post, not in the same vein of course, I've wondered about whether the God of Islam can be intellectually denied. It would indeed be very difficult. In fact, intellectually, I think if atheists pondered it, they might find Allah very interesting.

Particularly the nature of the relationship between Mohammadp and the Islamic God.

I'm confident for the intelligent people, Islam is the greatest threat to atheism. And people who study what the Koran says will very likely find it desirable to convert. We must fight this. I'll start a new thread laying into the Koran soon.

[The Grand Nudger]

LOL, you seem to have mistakenly used the word intelligent when you meant gullible. The Qu'ran didn't inspire me to do any converting, personally. You had different results?

[Vincenzo Vinny G.]

Well, when I say intelligent I don't usually count you.

But I may be able to make an exception if you can recite the alphabet.

[The Grand Nudger]

Particularly the nature of the relationship between Mohammadp and the Islamic God.

You forgot to add "buh" after the p btw.

[Vincenzo Vinny G.]

Oh that was just a typo. I don't say (PBUH) I'm not Muslim.

[Napoléon]

Oh that was just a typo. I don't say (PBUH) I'm not Muslim.

Interesting you feel the need to clarify this

[Vincenzo Vinny G.]

Let's keep the focus on how atheists and secular institutions can be more accepting of those of other faiths. As accepting as the religious institutions are.

[The Grand Nudger]

"Believers in fairies feel more comfortable around others who believe in fairies" Unsurprising. Last I checked, "atheist and secular institutions" (the first one is hilarious btw) weren't closing their doors based on a test of religiosity. The same can't be said of religious institutions, and in this case it does seem that they're learning some secular lesson eh? I don't see why accommodations need to be made.