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Signs/miracles sent only to cause fear?
September 22, 2012 at 6:33 pm
This verse was already brought up before in another thread. However what was discussed was the issue of why signs were not sent. Right now the focus is on why signs are sent in the first place. And here the reason also seems not to make sense. It is said signs are only sent to make people fear. But does that make sense? Let’s think about. Signs by definitions are proof. So this would mean the only thing God desires to do with proving Messengers are causing people to fear. As opposed to causing people to believe and that belief to be followed up by loving the virtues taught by God and following the right path, the motive is simply to make them fear. Not to hope, not to love, not to be good out of love, but to make them fear?
Such a reason is absurd. Obviously signs are proofs and should make people know the truth. The purpose of showing the truth shouldn’t be simply to make people fear and live in terror. Perhaps this can a be a purpose, but not the only reason.
Moreover such a notion is contradicted by Quran. In other places it said Messengers are sent so people rise up with justice, and to bring them from the darkness to the light. “Signs” are automatically proofs and evidence of a Messenger, and is connected to God wanting people to know the Messengers are telling the truth, which is connected to the purpose of God sending Messengers. So this cannot be the only reason of sending Signs per account of Quran as well.
The premises are as follows:
1) God sent signs to prove Messengers are true...
2) the purpose of proving them to be true is not simple to cause fear but to guide people from darkness to light, and to teach justice and virtues, and such a motive cannot be simply out of fear.
3) Therefore the notion that signs are only sent to cause fear would contradict Quran.
4) The Quran states signs were only sent to cause fear.
5) Therefore Quran contradicts itself.
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RE: Signs/miracles sent only to cause fear?
September 23, 2012 at 7:55 pm
(This post was last modified: September 23, 2012 at 7:59 pm by Rayaan.)
(September 22, 2012 at 6:33 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:
This verse was already brought up before in another thread. However what was discussed was the issue of why signs were not sent. Right now the focus is on why signs are sent in the first place. And here the reason also seems not to make sense. It is said signs are only sent to make people fear. But does that make sense? Let’s think about. Signs by definitions are proof. So this would mean the only thing God desires to do with proving Messengers are causing people to fear. As opposed to causing people to believe and that belief to be followed up by loving the virtues taught by God and following the right path, the motive is simply to make them fear. Not to hope, not to love, not to be good out of love, but to make them fear? Well, the idea that signs were sent only as a warning (or to cause fear) does not negate the idea that they were sent as a manifestation of the truth, or for the disbelievers to know the truth. Obviously, it's not impossible to know the truth and to fear the truth at the same time. Also, the "fear" doesn't have to be a negative thing nor intended for a bad reason. On the contrary, the fear according to the Quran was only intended to help the people cultivate a greater amount of goodness and justice and to bring about a positive change in them. Therefore, in my opinion, fear, goodness, and justice go hand-in-hand and they are not necessarily mutually exclusive.
The "signs" in that verse are referring to visible miracles which used to be presented as a proof of Prophethood. The disbelievers from among the Quraish were demanding such signs over and over again. However, whenever Allah sent a sign, it was not shown to them just for fun. The verse says that the signs were shown to them as a warning and to make them more aware of the terrible consequences of their disobedience.
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RE: Signs/miracles sent only to cause fear?
September 23, 2012 at 7:58 pm
(This post was last modified: September 23, 2012 at 8:01 pm by Reforged.)
(September 23, 2012 at 7:55 pm)Rayaan Wrote: (September 22, 2012 at 6:33 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:
This verse was already brought up before in another thread. However what was discussed was the issue of why signs were not sent. Right now the focus is on why signs are sent in the first place. And here the reason also seems not to make sense. It is said signs are only sent to make people fear. But does that make sense? Let’s think about. Signs by definitions are proof. So this would mean the only thing God desires to do with proving Messengers are causing people to fear. As opposed to causing people to believe and that belief to be followed up by loving the virtues taught by God and following the right path, the motive is simply to make them fear. Not to hope, not to love, not to be good out of love, but to make them fear? The "signs" in that verse are referring to visible miracles which used to be presented as a proof of Prophethood. The disbelievers from among the Quraish were demanding such signs over and over again. However, whenever Allah sent a sign, it was not shown to them just for fun. The verse says that the signs were shown to them as a warning and to make them more aware of the terrible consequences of their disobedience.
As for the "contradiction," the idea that signs were sent only as a warning (or to cause fear) does not negate the idea that they were sent as a manifestation of the truth, or for the disbelievers to know the truth. Obviously, it's not impossible to know the truth and to fear the truth at the same time. Secondly, the "fear" doesn't have to be a negative thing nor intended for a bad reason. On the contrary, the fear according to the Quran was only intended to help the people cultivate a greater amount of goodness and justice and to bring about a positive change in them. Therefore, in my opinion, fear, goodness, and justice go hand-in-hand and they are not necessarily mutually exclusive.
Doesn't that however present Allah as a tyrant who reigns through fear?
Wouldn't signs that don't resort to this tactic suffice?
"That is not dead which can eternal lie and with strange aeons even death may die."
- Abdul Alhazred.
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RE: Signs/miracles sent only to cause fear?
September 23, 2012 at 8:24 pm
(This post was last modified: September 23, 2012 at 8:31 pm by Mystic.)
(September 23, 2012 at 7:55 pm)Rayaan Wrote: Well, the idea that signs were sent only as a warning (or to cause fear) does not negate the idea that they were sent as a manifestation of the truth, or for the disbelievers to know the truth.
That is if and only if the purpose of sending proofs is to cause fear.
Quote:Therefore, in my opinion, fear, goodness, and justice go hand-in-hand and they are not necessarily mutually exclusive.
But in this case, it's not only that they are going to hand to hand, it's that motive of worshiping God, the motive of doing good, the motive of rising up for justice, the motive for adopting virtues....is simply out of fear.
This would also mean the motive to hope and love, should be all out of fear.
Everything God wants should be at the end with the Messengers should be out motive of fear.
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RE: Signs/miracles sent only to cause fear?
September 23, 2012 at 11:45 pm
(This post was last modified: September 23, 2012 at 11:48 pm by Mystic.)
The syllogism is as follows:
Signs are sent to provides proofs for Messengers.
Messengers are proven to be followed.
They are to be followed so that people can rise up for justice, be brought of darkness to light, and embody virtues.
Therefore Signs are sent for more then causing fear.
Now for it be only sent for fear....either the purpose of rising up for justice, being virtuous, moving from darkness to light, is all for fear or that fear is suppose to be the underlying motive for all that. It cannot simply just be a factor, but must be the motive. But both of these notions are absurd and contradict Quran. For example, hope in God, wanting to please him, these are suppose to be motives not simply out of fear. Also, the Quran has the goal of being purified is to be make it to the state of appreciation. Is appreciation something that should be motivated by simply fear?
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RE: Signs/miracles sent only to cause fear?
September 24, 2012 at 8:55 am
What if "messengers" are nothing more than opportunistic con men??
"The Universe is run by the complex interweaving of three elements: energy, matter, and enlightened self-interest." G'Kar-B5
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