the eventual circumcision ban, and the german jewish communitie

[Something completely different]

If you watch news on foreign issues you may have noticed that two months ago a court in the german city of Cologne (Köln) has criminalised the circumcision of infant boys for nonmedical purposes. The courtcase started after a incident in wich a muslim boy suffered from a severe infection after his circumcision.
The ban caused a public debate here in germany wich is still ongoing today.
One the one side several professionals on medical issues publicly voiced their concern about the practice of circumcision, aswell as several representatives of secular organisation underlined the nececety of holding the garantie of a childs health above religious tradition.
islamic, jewish and other religious institution have raised their concern over this ruling in various ways. Statement made from various religious creeds together in solidaritie were made just as were statment by muslims such as "if it had happened to a jew this debate wouldnt have happened"
When hearing oppinions from atheists outside germany i generaly hear voices of support. But here in germany, especialy considering our historical releationship with the jewish community, several different questions have been raised when debating the subject with fellow german atheists and agnostics.
I would like to hear your opinions and answeres to those questions.

1. the jews of germany
As many of you can possibly imagine our nations releation towards the jewish comunity is a special one. currently 100 000 jews live in germany and sadly enought antisemitism, especialy in catholic germany and east germany is still very wide spread, police constantly guard every single synagog and almoust every holocaust memorial. jewish children in jewish schools are advised to were their kippa disguised beneath other headgear.
recently antisemitism gained a new rise throughout islamic comunities due to the imigration uf muslims. One certainty within the republic of germany is that it is a historic nececety to make a jewish life in germany possible.
the current debate surrounding the circumcision ban has raised the question if a "jewish life" in germany would then still be possible.
Charlotte Knobloch, a holocaust surviver, former head of the jewish comunity in germany and long time defender of jewish life in germany stated that if the ban would be made a germanwide law - all her work - defending germany would have been invane.
http://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/besch...-1.1459038
I myself am aware that there are more risks than benefits with infant circumcision, but as a citizen of a nation wich has a dark history of eradicating tolerance and a entire people i do not want to discriminate these people again. I am jet to find a opinon on this since i want jews to live peacefully and prosper in germany, but also am aware of the risks resulting from circumcicion.

2. Musim discrimination.
One point wich has been raised in the debate was that muslims were almoust completly exempt. Instead the entire debate centered almoust entirely around the jewish comunity and it`s traditions. currently 1-1,5 million muslims live in germany. recently the muslim comunity hasn`t been in a good light after a failed terror plot, antisemetic incidents, salafist demonstrations, salafist attacks on police officers and muslims from germany who went to afghanistan on jihad.
when germans are asked about the circumcision debate and the muslim community, the most likely answere is "they should do it when grown up"
so are muslims being discriminated and their tradition not taken seriously due to their recent bad light in public?

3. choice of faith.
is it going to far to forbid religious traditions? i did read god is not great, and know hitchens argument that hindu widow burning is also forbidden, and that a chils health stands above all, but circumcision is a importent part of jewish and muslim culture, and the german constitution garantees the free practice of faith, and it is importent to understand that we germans dont what the jews to be discriminated by a german goverment ever again. although our country clearly defines itself as secular i do find myself thinking if this ban wouldnt ironicaly turn us germans into a disriminatory people again?

[Kayenneh]

3. choice of faith.
is it going to far to forbid religious traditions? circumcision is a importent part of jewish and muslim culture, and the german constitution garantees the free practice of faith. although our country clearly defines itself as secular i do find myself thinking if this ban wouldnt ironicaly turn us germans into a disriminatory people again?

As I've said many times before, appeal to tradition shouldn't be valid as an argument anymore. If there's substantial data going against why a tradition shouldn't be practiced, I say that the authorities have the right to step in and say no. It's like saying that doctors shouldn't wash their hands between autopsies and assisting in birth, because it's the way it has always been done. Belief should never trump knowledge.

[Something completely different]

As I've said many times before, appeal to tradition shouldn't be valid as an argument anymore. If there's substantial data going against why a tradition shouldn't be practiced, I say that the authorities have the right to step in and say no. It's like saying that doctors shouldn't wash their hands between autopsies and assisting in birth, because it's the way it has always been done. Belief should never trump knowledge.

but were does one draw the line on who can tell whom what to do?
in hitchens book god is not great, he makes the argument that we do not allow hindus to burn widos. and then he explains the revolting practice of sucking a foreskin of the babys penis as prcticed by ultra orthodox jews.
the question here is currently more a moral one with historic fact to be taken into concern - can we germans forbid jews to practice something wich is jewish? or does a secular israel have to do it first?

[Waratah]

The practice of circumcision on both boys and girls should not occur unless for health reasons. Now that being said is it possible to stop it from happening for religious reasons? I don't think it is, I think it would create illegal practices which more than likely cause more harm. I think the practice should be regulated with the relevant laws imposing as much as as possible without creating a illegal practice. I think the best chance to reduce the practice of circumcision is through education.

[CapnAwesome]

If someone wants to be circumcised, let them make that decision as an adult. Don't force it on an unwilling child.

[Anomalocaris]

3. choice of faith.
is it going to far to forbid religious traditions? i did read god is not great, and know hitchens argument that hindu widow burning is also forbidden, and that a chils health stands above all, but circumcision is a importent part of jewish and muslim culture, and the german constitution garantees the free practice of faith,

It is a fine but massively important line. On the one side is baning something because it is part of a religious tradition. On the other is banning something for reasons other than religion, despite the fact that it forms a part of religious tradition.

If the policy falls on the side of banning circumcision because it is jewish or muslim tradition, then it is going too far. If it falls on the side of banning circumcision is good policy, then fuck Jew and Muslims who object on religious tradition grounds.

[Minimalist]

can we germans forbid jews to practice something wich is jewish?

Would Germany allow someone from a remote Pacific Island to throw a virgin into a volcano because it is their religion?

Religious shits can believe anything they want. What the law should regulate is conduct. Is this stupid ritual worth the life of one child?

I say no.

[Whatkins]

If you watch news on foreign issues you may have noticed that two months ago a court in the german city of Cologne (Köln) has criminalised the circumcision of infant boys for nonmedical purposes.

Bravo.

Statement made from various religious creeds together in solidaritie were made just as were statment by muslims such as "if it had happened to a jew this debate wouldnt have happened"

It happens too often that criticism directed at Islamic practices is decried by Muslims as specific prejudice. They should learn to put that one back in the deck soon.

so are muslims being discriminated and their tradition not taken seriously due to their recent bad light in public?

That may well be the case. Reputation is a powerful factor and "bad" light is different to "good" light for a reason. I find it cowardly and awkward that Muslims should want infidels to consider their crimes in isolation to one another, as if this lessens responsibility.

although our country clearly defines itself as secular i do find myself thinking if this ban wouldnt ironicaly turn us germans into a disriminatory people again?

Would it really be discrimination though? If I like to beat people up with a truncheon, someone with sense would rightly take my bludgeoning stick away from me. That is not discrimination. You are not oppressing me by taking my weapon away from me - indeed, you are freeing my victim from my oppression.

can we germans forbid jews to practice something wich is jewish? or does a secular israel have to do it first?

Please note that the object of this problem (a defenseless child) is not Jewish. There is no such thing as a Jewish child, nor a Catholic, Christian nor any other religious child. These are children of religious parents - a difference that cannot be stressed enough.

Thus, a religious practice is being inflicted on them. No child gives consent to genital mutilation. You do not need to have heard their frantic protests and chilling screams at the event to know this. This is why their elders hide behind the fact that they are children, for how would they possibly know what is in their own interest?

This is not a matter of where to draw the line between who gets to tell who what do do. This is a matter of taking away a maniac's truncheon.