Uni Health Care

[dry land fish]

I know many people who have taken bankruptcy and they are just fine. My best friend took a chapter seven bankruptcy about eight years ago because she bit off more than she could chew with a house and a new car. She got to keep her house, sold her car, and the next week had another car that was just as nice. She's better off than I am even having a bankruptcy on her credit report!!

I don't have insurance and I am just fine. I pay around a hundred dollars to see my doctor when I see him. If anything were to happen to me that I just could not afford I know that my family would put a mortgage on their home to help me pay for it. My friends would help and donate money. That's what most people do where I live who can't afford heart surgery or cancer treatments. The government has no right to take money from people who have money to spread it around to people who have no money. People need to rely on charty and friends and family in times of need.

Last year I bought an Adenta dental plan for my whole family for eighty dollars a month. It covered cleaning, x rays, and some dental work up to 75 percent. That's cheap. My mother has her own health insurance. She pays around two hundred a month and she's considered at risk due to her age. A young person can get a good health insurance plan for nothing. My son's plan that I pay for out of pocket costs me one hundred dollars a month. I don't see how insurance is so expensive...it's just what some procedures cost that is expensive. The problem is regulating what doctors are allowed to charge and to make sure they aren't charging excessive amounts for procedures. There is a way the government can control that aspect of the health care indusry without taxing it's citizens. Americans hate taxes.....and we usually resist any new program that requires us to be taxed more. Do not forget that our economy is at it's worst since the great depression. This is NO time to start up new programs that cost billions. I don't care who is dieing in the streets...we can NOT afford it.

[Eilonnwy]

I know many people who have taken bankruptcy and they are just fine. My best friend took a chapter seven bankruptcy about eight years ago because she bit off more than she could chew with a house and a new car. She got to keep her house, sold her car, and the next week had another car that was just as nice. She's better off than I am even having a bankruptcy on her credit report!!

Yes because bankruptcy is a walk in the part. e_e and everyone has the success of your friend. I've lived through bankruptcy when my parents had to do it, it's not fun. And I'm not talking about idiots who spend too much, I'm talking about people who's only mistake was getting sick or injured and are buried in hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt and they are about to lose their home. Your little anecdote does not apply.

I don't have insurance and I am just fine. I pay around a hundred dollars to see my doctor when I see him. If anything were to happen to me that I just could not afford I know that my family would put a mortgage on their home to help me pay for it. My friends would help and donate money. That's what most people do where I live who can't afford heart surgery or cancer treatments. The government has no right to take money from people who have money to spread it around to people who have no money. People need to rely on charty and friends and family in times of need.

Last year I bought an Adenta dental plan for my whole family for eighty dollars a month. It covered cleaning, x rays, and some dental work up to 75 percent. That's cheap. My mother has her own health insurance. She pays around two hundred a month and she's considered at risk due to her age. A young person can get a good health insurance plan for nothing. My son's plan that I pay for out of pocket costs me one hundred dollars a month. I don't see how insurance is so expensive...it's just what some procedures cost that is expensive. The problem is regulating what doctors are allowed to charge and to make sure they aren't charging excessive amounts for procedures. There is a way the government can control that aspect of the health care indusry without taxing it's citizens. Americans hate taxes.....and we usually resist any new program that requires us to be taxed more. Do not forget that our economy is at it's worst since the great depression. This is NO time to start up new programs that cost billions. I don't care who is dieing in the streets...we can NOT afford it.

So instead of having the government use Tax money to help people, neighbors and family are supposed to take on the burden. It's okay for other people to pay for your health insurance, but not if the government is involved? You're ridiculous. The whole point is your parents shouldn't have to re-mortgage your house. Your solution is completely unrealistic. It should be covered by the health insurance you're paying for. And guess what? You think it's inexpensive what you're paying for? That's actually pretty pricey. What you've listed as prices, well someone struggling paycheck to paycheck trying to support their family could never pay that. And you mention procedures are expensive, NO SHIT. If you're paying that much for insurance those procedures SHOULD be covered, and you've admitted they're not. What are you paying that ridiculous amount of money for?

I have insurance for about $60 a month, covers dental and health. If I didn't have health insurance I would had to have pay out of pocket for a surgery I had in 2008 for an ovarian cyst the size of a grapefruit. If I didn't have insurance I'd have to pay $300 a month for medication that makes it possible for me to breathe. I'm not horribly sick. Asthma and cysts are basic medical problems that would have buried me without insurance. In fact I'm still paying off for a pathology test that wasn't covered by my insurance.

In the long run, you seem to think it's okay that you spend a hundred dollars a month for you son, and if he gets really sick and a procedure won't be covered, you'll hold a fundraiser. Good luck with that.

In fact your last statement shows how sick and twisted your opinion is on this. Who cares if people are dying on the streets. We can't afford it. Tell that to someone dying of cancer while they watch their family get kicked out of the house due to enormous medical bills. Tell that to their face, let them know how completely heartless you are.

I've already explained to you our lack of covering these people is far more expensive. Maybe you should learn the facts about what you're talking about before you open your mouth. The cost of doing something is far cheaper than the cost of doing nothing at all.

P.S. Your statement about Americans hating taxes is a broad brush. I have absolutely no problem with taxes, my problem comes in when it's wasted on things like pork projects, military, needless wars, etc... I'm more than happy to pay taxes that benefit the society as a whole. Unless of course you're under the misconception that the Boston tea party was about Americans hating taxes. If you think that's true, you have a lot to learn.

P.P.S. Massachusetts has universal health care with a public option. We're doing pretty good with ours, and thanks to it I and many others have insurance. We're not bankrupt. In fact, it was thanks to Sen. Ted Kennedy that we have it, and he died last night. It's terribly unfortunate since Health Care reform was his baby. He'll be missed.

[Meatball]

DLF:

Let's imagine for a moment that every American citizen has a High School education and some post-secondary. Do you think that will somehow enable businesses to pay them more and there will be no lower class?

[Eilonnwy]

[youtube]HQNDIgh7MTI[/youtube]

I think I agree with everything this man said.

[bozo]

[video cut out]

I think I agree with everything this man said.

Me too. Racism rearing its ugly head again over the healthcare initiative by a BLACK president.

[dry land fish]

To Elion:

It's not ok for anyone to pay for anyone elses health insurance if they don't want to. Charity is done out of someones free will. They can choose to help someone or choose not to. It's not forcing them to pay. The government takeover of the health care industry would FORCE Americans to pay for everyones health insurance. That is not constitutional. You don't force anyone to pay any money they don't want to pay for anything. I never said what was covered and what wasn't. To me the price I pay isn't pricey. If someone can't afford that price then they can pay for what they can afford. The whole idea is to have options and to be able to pick your own coverage and what you want. If you have money to pay for something more then great. If not...then ok. I am still going to hold fast to the idea that if someone wants anything in life to be easy they had better find a good job and not expect to flip burgers for a living and live like people who make three and four times as much as they do. If you want the perks of good health care...then work for it. In my state the lazy non working welfare skanks get better medical treatment than the working class. I don't feel sorry for those people and I never will. I know many people who have had cancer because cancer is one of the number one killers in my state. All families have auctions and the community pitches in and donates things to auction off. They are successful. The whole idea of my political party is for people who are needy to rely on charity...since people aren't being forced to help them. Some people I wouldn't donate anything to. Some people don't deserve it. If we have universal healthcare then those that don't deserve it will also qualify.

---

DLF:

Let's imagine for a moment that every American citizen has a High School education and some post-secondary. Do you think that will somehow enable businesses to pay them more and there will be no lower class?

There will always be a lower class. Why should we take care of them though? If they are able to do better and choose not to then how is it that anyone should spend money to keep them alive? We need to eliminate the need for corporations and bring back a stable small town atmosphere. Educating people will help to enable them to go into business for themselves. Instead of people buying things from Target, Home Depot, and Wal Mart we can rely on our locally owned stores like people used to. This helps Americans to be self sufficient and keeps money evenly distributed and keeps the general American population a little more wealthy. As it is we spend money at corporations that employ people at minimum wage and the top CEO's get the money. I don't blame corporations for being how they are....it's the smart thing for their business. It's hurting the American economy. Giving things to people only pacifys the current problem that we have with insufficient Americans. If we expect the government to give us things then eventually will that make people start thinkin there's no need to ever work to improve ther lives?

As for that video up there....I am NOT racist. I voted for Obama and just because I'm not happy with the current plan as is doesn't mean I'm raicst or that some underlying racism is fueling my views. Unless someone comes out and says something that directly shows that they are racist then we shouldn't call anyone racist. I understand most conservatives are racist especially those in the deep south. I also live in a Democratic county and most Democrats voted for McCain in my county because they are racist. Most of the Democrats here don't agree with anything Obama is doing. So right wing or left wing or whatever you can't put people in a box like that. My view isn't because I think white people's money will go to Black people. Over half of the welfare babies in my county are white trash and don't deserve any handouts. Those people that say "if you don't support Obama you are a racist" are just as stupid as those conservatives that are calling Obama a Nazi. I support Obama...I just think this idea he has about health care is not a smart choice.

[Eilonnwy]

To Elion:

It's not ok for anyone to pay for anyone elses health insurance if they don't want to. Charity is done out of someones free will. They can choose to help someone or choose not to. It's not forcing them to pay. The government takeover of the health care industry would FORCE Americans to pay for everyones health insurance. That is not constitutional. You don't force anyone to pay any money they don't want to pay for anything. I never said what was covered and what wasn't. To me the price I pay isn't pricey. If someone can't afford that price then they can pay for what they can afford. The whole idea is to have options and to be able to pick your own coverage and what you want. If you have money to pay for something more then great. If not...then ok. I am still going to hold fast to the idea that if someone wants anything in life to be easy they had better find a good job and not expect to flip burgers for a living and live like people who make three and four times as much as they do. If you want the perks of good health care...then work for it.

Okay, we've established that you don't care about anyone but yourself. Even still, your logic is flawed. Also you're classifying this as the government takeover of healthcare, and it's not. Private companies will still exist and since the public option will produce competition with the insurance company, it will bring your price down, make them accountable for the horrible practices they engaging in right now. It's not just about making sure everyone has health insurance, but to making sure whether your insurance doesn't just drop you for getting sick. It's not just about providing a public option, but reformed these horrible malpractices that happen should you actually get sick or injured.

The fact, though, that you think life is as simple as "get a job and work for it" means you have no idea how this world works. Some people have it bad through no fault of their own. Some people have opportunities that others don't. Telling them to just work hard for it is not the fix-all solution. And you're statement that if people want things to be easy they need to work hard? That's an oxymoron.

[dry land fish]

To Elion:

It's not ok for anyone to pay for anyone elses health insurance if they don't want to. Charity is done out of someones free will. They can choose to help someone or choose not to. It's not forcing them to pay. The government takeover of the health care industry would FORCE Americans to pay for everyones health insurance. That is not constitutional. You don't force anyone to pay any money they don't want to pay for anything. I never said what was covered and what wasn't. To me the price I pay isn't pricey. If someone can't afford that price then they can pay for what they can afford. The whole idea is to have options and to be able to pick your own coverage and what you want. If you have money to pay for something more then great. If not...then ok. I am still going to hold fast to the idea that if someone wants anything in life to be easy they had better find a good job and not expect to flip burgers for a living and live like people who make three and four times as much as they do. If you want the perks of good health care...then work for it.

Okay, we've established that you don't care about anyone but yourself. Even still, your logic is flawed. Also you're classifying this as the government takeover of healthcare, and it's not. Private companies will still exist and since the public option will produce competition with the insurance company, it will bring your price down, make them accountable for the horrible practices they engaging in right now. It's not just about making sure everyone has health insurance, but to making sure whether your insurance doesn't just drop you for getting sick. It's not just about providing a public option, but reformed these horrible malpractices that happen should you actually get sick or injured.

The fact, though, that you think life is as simple as "get a job and work for it" means you have no idea how this world works. Some people have it bad through no fault of their own. Some people have opportunities that others don't. Telling them to just work hard for it is not the fix-all solution. And you're statement that if people want things to be easy they need to work hard? That's an oxymoron.

They will still take taxes to fund this. I mean if they are going to allow private companies to still exist then those that want to participate in a private health insurance plan should not have their taxes taken to pay for the government health care. If that's the case then someone is payin twice for health insurance. They are paying taxes to pay for everyone else...and then they are paying for their own insurance. How is that fair? Life is as simple as "get a job and work for it". I don't mean to go out and get a back breaking job and dig ditches for a living. Working hard doesn't mean that you'll get anything. Most of the "hard" jobs don't pay squat. I'm saying if you want anything then make good choices. Talk to a financial advisor and get a plan for your future. Save money for a rainy day. Invest in stocks. When I was eighteen years old my mom made me visit a financial advisor and at sixteen I was made to take my money and put it on CD's that drew interest at my bank. People make irresponsible choices and that has a lot to do with whether or not they can afford to be healthy. How many people make their kids get a financial advisor? How many even show them how to keep up with a checkbook? People are irresponsible and that's most of the problem!!!!

You know our government gives inmates in prison a check? Yet people still have not gotten money from FEMA for a tornado that tore through my town in 2005. These same nit wits will be supposedly helping to control health care too. I don't want anyone who decides inmates deserve free money controlling health care.

[Eilonnwy]

They will still take taxes to fund this. I mean if they are going to allow private companies to still exist then those that want to participate in a private health insurance plan should not have their taxes taken to pay for the government health care. If that's the case then someone is payin twice for health insurance. They are paying taxes to pay for everyone else...and then they are paying for their own insurance. How is that fair? Life is as simple as "get a job and work for it". I don't mean to go out and get a back breaking job and dig ditches for a living. Working hard doesn't mean that you'll get anything. Most of the "hard" jobs don't pay squat. I'm saying if you want anything then make good choices. Talk to a financial advisor and get a plan for your future. Save money for a rainy day. Invest in stocks. When I was eighteen years old my mom made me visit a financial advisor and at sixteen I was made to take my money and put it on CD's that drew interest at my bank. People make irresponsible choices and that has a lot to do with whether or not they can afford to be healthy. How many people make their kids get a financial advisor? How many even show them how to keep up with a checkbook? People are irresponsible and that's most of the problem!!!!

You know our government gives inmates in prison a check? Yet people still have not gotten money from FEMA for a tornado that tore through my town in 2005. These same nit wits will be supposedly helping to pay for health care too. I don't want anyone who decides inmates deserve free money controlling health care.

If you send someone to private school your taxes still pay for the public schools. *gasp* you pay for school twice. Would you argue we shouldn't have public schools? You already think people who are poor through no fault of their own shouldn't have some standard of health insurance, why should we educate them either? Hey, why don't we kill we them off anyway, they're just a burden on society anyway.

It must be nice to explain away society's ills as someone else's problem, someone else's irresponsible choice. You're not going to help the impoverished by saying "Hey! Get a job!" If people are struggling just to eat and stay healthy, it can be near impossible to get a job. I would never advocate that that we need to give the poor everything, but if we provide proper education, proper programs that not only assist them but put them on programs that encourage helping themselves and gives them the tools to help themselves, THEN you can have a poor person pick themselves up and take advantage of opportunities. You fail to realize it's attitudes like yours that perpetuate the lower class. The world's problems are not as simple as "get a job." There are serious impediments that the lower class has to overcome, the least of which is "get a job." If we can give poor people some health care, because the public option is not going to be the best thing ever, but at least something to cover doctor's visits and practice preventive care, it can go a long way to helping people get and keep a job. Lower class citizens have to go to work sick because they'll get fired if they stay home. This is an extremely complicated issue. It's clear that you just. don't. get. it. How are people supposed to help themselves if they can't get a good education, if they don't have access to certain information, or opportunities that the upper class has? They cannot make smart choices with their money and life if they don't have people educating them and helping them go in the right direction!

Seriously, do you think about what you say before you speak, because you're arguments are contradictory. You don't want inmates to get checks, or poor people to have some standard of healthcare, but damnit, where's your help for Tornado damage? It's hypocritical. If you want the government to help you, you have to realize they're going to help other people to.

[binny]

The government takeover of the health care industry would FORCE Americans to pay for everyones health insurance. That is not constitutional.

You know dlf, if health care reform is passed and there is a public option that your tax dollars pay for I'm going to be first in line to sign up for it. It will bring me great joy to know that your tax dollars are paying for my pap smear. I going to have the biggest smile on my face knowing your paying for someone to look up my hole. That will be the happiest day of my life.