Prosperity Theology

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

@ ARCANUS mainly, but of course open to anyone who feels like jumping in.

What is your opinion of "Prosperity Theology" so beloved of some of the happy clappy evangelicals?


So we're on the same page; From Wiki

Prosperity theology (also known as prosperity doctrine, health and wealth, prosperity gospel) is a religious teaching that God desires material prosperity for those he favors.[1] Material prosperity in this theology not only includes financial prosperity but success in relationships and good health as well.[2] This material favour may be preordained, or granted by God in return for correct "faith" significantly evidenced in the beliefs, attitude and obedience of the adherent.[3] It has been the target of debate within the Christian community.[4]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosperity_theology


My perception is that it's a simplified reworking of Calvinism,with its teaching of predestination usually implied rather than stated outright. IE The saved are prosperous, that's how you can tell they're saved. (See Max Weber; "The Protestant Ethic And The Spirit Of Capitalism")

The notion seems to contradict the admonitions and some of the parables of Jesus;EG "It's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven" and the "the lillies of the field". There's LOT in the gospels about living a simple life devoid of wealth,both explicit and implied..


That's the cheese, I'll leave the chalk of Liberation theology for another thread. Not wanting to argue doesn't mean I'm not willing to ask your opinion. I also visit an on line Yeshiva to ask Talmudic scholars about Judaism,but don't try to argue with them. I want to learn,not "prove I'm right".

[fr0d0]

The notion seems to contradict the admonitions and some of the parables of Jesus;EG "It's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven" and the "the lillies of the field". There's LOT in the gospels about living a simple life devoid of wealth,both explicit and implied..

Says it all.

[Dotard]

No Frodo, it doesn't. If those two passages "say it all" then you are ignoring these;


Deuteronomy 8:17 And thou say in thine heart, My power and the might of mine hand hath gotten me this wealth. (8:17-18) "God ... giveth thee power to get wealth."
8:18 But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as it is this day.

Ecclesiastes 5:19 Every man also to whom God hath given riches and wealth, and hath given him power to eat thereof, and to take his portion, and to rejoice in his labour; this is the gift of God.

Luke 6:38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

John 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

[Purple Rabbit]

Dotard, presumably you need advanced theology (don't know which theology to cherry pick from after this close encounter with Prosperity Theology, but alas) to choose the right bible citations.

Atheists are of course not equiped for that, especially the ones that as a child were desperately trying to believe in something that would both be socially acceptable and on a personal level not to illogical and morally objectionable.

[fr0d0]

That makes no sense at all dotard - none of those passages condones prosperity theology. To bastardise the meaning doesn't help.


Deuteronomy 8:17 And thou say in thine heart, My power and the might of mine hand hath gotten me this wealth. (8:17-18) "God ... giveth thee power to get wealth."
8:18 But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as it is this day.

So God gives you power to get wealth. It came from God. The point is that God gives - wealth and poverty


Ecclesiastes 5:19 Every man also to whom God hath given riches and wealth, and hath given him power to eat thereof, and to take his portion, and to rejoice in his labour; this is the gift of God.

God's gift again


Luke 6:38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

Why? (Is the point again)


John 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

Life does not equal wealth - see Paraics explanation above

[LukeMC]

Deuteronomy 8:17 And thou say in thine heart, My power and the might of mine hand hath gotten me this wealth. (8:17-18) "God ... giveth thee power to get wealth."
8:18 But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as it is this day.

So God gives you power to get wealth. It came from God. The point is that God gives - wealth and poverty


Ecclesiastes 5:19 Every man also to whom God hath given riches and wealth, and hath given him power to eat thereof, and to take his portion, and to rejoice in his labour; this is the gift of God.

God's gift again

If God is giving this gift, and in your eyes this is justified wealth, then I'm assuming this is the line of reasoning used by the prosperous thelogians? Or at least, a slightly twisted version of it? If one can praise God for every happening in their life down to the food on the thanksgiving table, I'm sure one can say "this money I personally went out of my way to make was also a gift from God". Obviously, I find both sentiments absurb, and trust that you do too. If God didn't give you the wealth which you went and earned, God also didn't give you the turkey you went out and bought with the wealth you earned. But in some cases God does give the gift of wealth? How is this so?

[fr0d0]

Yeah, prosperity theology stands as a bastardization of the meaning. IMO (too).

God gave me health to earn the money. Is the way it goes isn't it. I owe everything to God and God is the benefactor. Even if your life turns out like Job's you still owe it to God and, poignantly, God want's you to have life to the full despite material wealth or lack of. Material wealth is immaterial

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

Some of the answers so far pretty much confirm by basic view of The Abrahamic faiths , and give more examples of common Christian duplicity: viz: The holy books are so full of contradictions that by cherry picking,one may justify behaviours I consider diametrically opposed morally..

In my comment I made no reference to the OT,asking if Prosperity Theology contradicts the the teachings of Jesus. I was taught that Jesus came to "perfect the law' .In essence that means there can be no conflict between the OT and the Gospels. Like state VS federal law. Here federal law trumps state law.

Christian duplicity began when they removed the hard bits of Judaism, such as most of Mosaic law and continues to this day by picking only the attractive bits from say Leviticus. Fundies are adept playing the old against the new when they want to get around anything too personally demanding in the Gospels.EG: Ignoring say "love your enemy","turn the other cheek","what you do to these the least of my brethren,you do to me" and choosing "an eye for an eye" to which they ascribe a meaning different from traditional Judaism.

Dogmatic believers seem to love the bits which say it's OK to reject/persecute /kill people who are different or who disagree;Eg gays,atheists and of course "heretics; who they only stopped burning alive when they weren't allowed to any more. Today such events would be televised live.


So far,it seems that same kind of intellectual sleight of hand is what is used to justify Prosperity Theology.(which,as some of you may be aware, is controversial,and in no way the consensus teaching of mainstream churches)

I'd still like to hear from Arcanus.

[chatpilot]

In my opinion one of the best stories that illustrate that God was not against wealth is found in the story of Job. This wealth was based on his living a life that was pleasing to the Lord and as a result he was rewarded for his obedience after having his faith in God tried and put through the ringer.Long story short Satan made a wager with God that Job was obedient and faithful because God had given him everything but if he took it away he said that Job would curse God to his face.


8And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

10Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.

11But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.

There is the wager in the book of Job of the O.T.

12And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.

Satan made Jobs life a living hell but in the end he came out with flying colors and was rewarded double of everything that he already had.
10And the LORD turned the captivity of Job, when he prayed for his friends: also the LORD gave Job twice as much as he had before.
12So the LORD blessed the latter end of Job more than his beginning: for he had fourteen thousand sheep, and six thousand camels, and a thousand yoke of oxen, and a thousand she asses.
13He had also seven sons and three daughters.

Job was wealthy and had it all as a result of his faithfulness to God.Sorry for the long post.

---

1 Timothy 6:10:

10For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

On the other hand wealth does have the tendency to corrupt if as all things it is used irresponsibly.As is made clear in this passage it is the LOVE of money that is the root of all evil not money itself.I am personally against prosperity theology because it gives false promises to it's adherents and misleads their intentions for serving their God.

Luke 12:29-31

29And seek not ye what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink, neither be ye of doubtful mind.

30For all these things do the nations of the world seek after: and your Father knoweth that ye have need of these things.

31But rather seek ye the kingdom of God; and all these things shall be added unto you.

As you can see by this text although it speaks about your needs and not your wants, it brings my point home pretty nicely.That is that prosperity theology teaches to seek wealth first; but as seen in this text your intentions should not be wealth but rather as illustrated in the Job story wealth comes as part of your obedience and ushakeable faith in God.