Hare Krishna

[The Grand Nudger]

Up until the point that it conflicts with your mythology, I get it. We all have priorities. No amount of arguing against scientism will bring your particular POV closer to being accurate...you do realize this, yes?

[LastPoet]

@ Rhythm: I guess I missed it, thanks, I prefer to use code

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I'm still waiting for that proof of god.

[Mister Agenda]

Someone else on this forum today told me that maybe in a million years scientists could create life from chemicals. No scientist can create any living thing from raw chemicals. They've tried. Nor can scientists can bring any dead organism back to life.

I'm a little disappointed at this popular Christian tack. What irritates me about it is that if scientists do create a living thing from raw chemicals, you'll just drop this objection and blithely move on retaining the exact same beliefs as though scientists making life from chemicals doesn't prove a thing. So the whole issue is pointless since it doesn't have anything at all with why you disagree with atheists, it's just a freakin' talking point.

Now scientists have taken a denucleated (dead) cell, inserted an artificial nucleus (bacteria genome made from scratch), and have the cell resume functioning, including reproduction by cell division. In other words, the only part of life we have not made completely synthetically is the cell wall. We're not a million years off from making a living cell from scratch, we're probably less than a decade away from it.

So, if biologists completely synthesize a cell from raw materials, what significant change will that bring about in your belief system?

[Darkstar]

It is not, but it is way more reliable than anything religion has ever come up.

This, is not a scientific statement. This is what you believe. I'm sure you really really sincerely believe it from the bottom of your heart, too. And I'm sure the gods of science really appreciate your faith and devotion.

Stop making science sound like a religion. Does religion use the scientific method? Does religion do tests? Does religion realize that a 9% sucess rate for prayer means that it's just luck? Once religion actually decides to investigate its claims rather than just believing harder, I will take a look. You keep saying we can't prove you don't know god exists. Well, you can't prove we don't know he doesn't exist...

And science deals exactly with things we can all do, given the methodology, and made predictions that resulted in practical ways.

Great, so why not stick with that? Science can't talk about God. So why try?

So...science works...but it can't explain things that are totally made up? Okay, I'll give you that.

I can show that objects of different weights fall at the same speed to anyone in this world. You can't show your god like that. And why whouldn't he let itself be seen??

You're comparing apples and oranges, dude. More like apples with the source of you, me, your consciousness, your perceptions, your weights, your ideas about experiments and science and truth and everything. You want God to fit in your little hand, but He doesn't. You may be one of His experiments, He doesn't have to show up for any of yours.

We don't have to explain god to detect him. We have never detected any god, nor found anything that can't be explained without god. There is nothing that scinece can't explain, even if it hasn't explained it yet. People thought the Lisbon earthquake was an act of god, even before that thay thought Zeus caused lightning. Just keep pushing that god-of-the-gaps back further and further. There will always be gaps to hide in; if there aren't you can make some up. First god was in the clouds, then it was outer space, and now he's been pushed beyond space and time itself, safely removed from potential falsification.

[The Grand Nudger]

and now he's been pushed beyond space and time itself, safely removed from potential falsification.

Not quite, the faithful still like to tie their fantasies to this world, and thats the place where their deflections always fail them. Look at our boy Krishna here, claims that god was proven to him somehow (tied this creature to himself directly, no less), but he can't seem to communicate how this was done to folks who ask.

[Mister Agenda]

But if there is a scientific theory out there that supports atheism, it should be taken extremely seriously, even if there's no evidence for it, and anyone who asks for evidence and shows a little skepticism is obviously so dumb!

If there's no evidence for it, it's not a scientific theory.

[The Grand Nudger]

I'm not even sure what that's supposed to mean. "I don't believe" requires a scientific theory to support it precisely why? I suppose you could devise an experiment to demonstrate my atheism though. Ask me about 400 times whether or not I believe..lol. Get somebody else to ask me, etc etc etc.

[Darkstar]

and now he's been pushed beyond space and time itself, safely removed from potential falsification.

Not quite, the faithful still like to tie their fantasies to this world, and thats the place where their deflections always fail them. Look at our boy Krishna here, claims that god was proven to him somehow (tied this creature to himself directly, no less), but he can't seem to communicate how this was done to folks who ask.

You would think that prayer, the one true and unambiguous proof of god, once debunked, would have been a major blow. But no, the theists remained in denail, accusing the prayer of being 'mechanical' (there's a special method required?) and saying that a study couldn't prove anything (so god is deliberately obscuring his own existence?)

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I'm not even sure what that's supposed to mean. "I don't believe" requires a scientific theory to support it precisely why?

'I don't believe' either requires the hypothesis that isn't believed to be unscintific, or unsupported by evidence. However, theists take it as an either/or, rather than an and/or, trying to say that because it is unscientific it needs no evidence. Suuuuure....

[LastPoet]

I have no reason that distinguishes your religious belief from any other this madhouse has spawned. That is why you should provide evidence for your god, specially, your particular god.

[The Grand Nudger]

You aren't going to get that LP, this one has thrown a wide net.....just in case.