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RE: How do I know the things I know?
October 7, 2012 at 2:28 am
(October 7, 2012 at 2:20 am)Akincana Krishna dasa Wrote: Religion has established a conclusion that is verifiable and has been consistently verified by saints for many many generations.
Verifiable by whom? Saints? Got one handy? Oh wait ... Are not saints dead people?
All right, I got this now. Your god talks to dead people and these dead people talk to live people and these live people talk to you. John Edwards anyone?
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RE: How do I know the things I know?
October 7, 2012 at 2:37 am
(This post was last modified: October 7, 2012 at 2:41 am by Akincana Krishna dasa.)
(October 7, 2012 at 2:19 am)IATIA Wrote: Okay, please elaborate on some of the empirical data, experiments and proofs. The entirety of the conscious experience of our lives constitutes the preliminary empirical data. You may notice, for example, that you exist. Why? Everyone has to die. Why? No one wants suffering, but suffering comes. Why? I am a conscious entity forced to suffer a troublesome existence - this experience leads us to ask who we are and what we're meant for.
Vedic knowledge offers both a theoretical explanation of reality, as well as a methodology for how to realize ourselves. I'm happy to elaborate on this, if interested. The simplest summary of the worldview offered by Vedic knowledge is given in the Bhagavad Gita.
Proof is when an aspirant achieves self-realization by these standard spiritual methodologies, which includes the reawakening of her eternal relationship with the supreme consciousness.
(October 7, 2012 at 2:28 am)IATIA Wrote: Are not saints dead people? I don't know if someone uses the word that way.
A saint is a person with saintly qualities. Krishna says this in Bhagavad Gita:
"Fearlessness; purification of one's existence; cultivation of spiritual knowledge; charity; self-control; performance of sacrifice; study of the Vedas; austerity; simplicity; nonviolence; truthfulness; freedom from anger; renunciation; tranquillity; aversion to faultfinding; compassion for all living entities; freedom from covetousness; gentleness; modesty; steady determination; vigor; forgiveness; fortitude; cleanliness; and freedom from envy and from the passion for honor -- these transcendental qualities, O son of Bharata, belong to godly men endowed with divine nature." (BG 16.1-3)
I've met several genuine saints in my life.
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RE: How do I know the things I know?
October 7, 2012 at 2:49 am
(This post was last modified: October 7, 2012 at 2:50 am by Darkstar.)
(October 7, 2012 at 2:37 am)Akincana Krishna dasa Wrote: The entirety of the conscious experience of our lives constitutes the preliminary empirical data. You may notice, for example, that you exist. Why? Everyone has to die. Why? No one wants suffering, but suffering comes. Why? I am a conscious entity forced to suffer a troublesome existence - this experience leads us to ask who we are and what we're meant for. ...and make up an answer if we can't find one.
Akincana Krishna dasa Wrote:Vedic knowledge offers both a theoretical explanation of reality, as well as a methodology for how to realize ourselves. I'm happy to elaborate on this, if interested. The simplest summary of the worldview offered by Vedic knowledge is given in the Bhagavad Gita.
Proof is when an aspirant achieves self-realization by these standard spiritual methodologies, which includes the reawakening of her eternal relationship with the supreme consciousness.
You must first demonstrate that either this being exists, or that your 'connection' is real.
Akincana Krishna dasa Wrote: (October 7, 2012 at 2:28 am)IATIA Wrote: Are not saints dead people? I don't know if someone uses the word that way.
Well he's technically right. One can only be named a saint post-mortem.
Akincana Krishna dasa Wrote:A saint is a person with saintly qualities. Krishna says this in Bhagavad Gita:
"Fearlessness; purification of one's existence; cultivation of spiritual knowledge; charity; self-control; performance of sacrifice; study of the Vedas; austerity; simplicity; nonviolence; truthfulness; freedom from anger; renunciation; tranquillity; aversion to faultfinding; compassion for all living entities; freedom from covetousness; gentleness; modesty; steady determination; vigor; forgiveness; fortitude; cleanliness; and freedom from envy and from the passion for honor -- these transcendental qualities, O son of Bharata, belong to godly men endowed with divine nature." (BG 16.1-3)
I've met several genuine saints in my life.
I still don't understand what 'spiritual knowledge' is supposed to be, aside from, say, reading a holy book. Study of the Vedas is a seperate qualifier, though, so I'm assuming that isn't the case. How exactly can someone have 'freedom from anger'? Does this mean that they are literally incapable of becoming angry, or simply that they have good control over it? Also, does this mean that non-saints can neer detect god?
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RE: How do I know the things I know?
October 7, 2012 at 3:06 am
(This post was last modified: October 7, 2012 at 3:08 am by Akincana Krishna dasa.)
It's not my answer, it's Krishna's answer. Anyone can verify it's truth, if they're ready to take the trouble to do so.
Maybe in another church people only call you a saint when you're dead, but I never use it that way. A person is a saint if they have saintly qualities.
Yes, without elevating your consciousness, you'll never detect God.
"Deluded by the three modes [goodness, passion and ignorance], the whole world does not know Me, who am above the modes and inexhaustible." (BG 7.13)
"I am never manifest to the foolish and unintelligent. For them I am covered by My internal potency, and therefore they do not know that I am unborn and infallible." (BG 7.25)
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RE: How do I know the things I know?
October 7, 2012 at 3:35 am
(October 5, 2012 at 11:54 pm)Akincana Krishna dasa Wrote: I know reliable sources that know God and have seen Him. They are teaching me how to see Him too. It takes a while, God's not cheap.
That's how I know God exists.
Oh gawd .. what are they charging you? Would you like me to organize an intervention?
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RE: How do I know the things I know?
October 7, 2012 at 11:58 am
(October 5, 2012 at 11:54 pm)Akincana Krishna dasa Wrote: I know reliable sources that know God and have seen Him. They are teaching me how to see Him too. It takes a while, God's not cheap.
That's how I know God exists.
Don't you think that maybe this 'seeing' god is actually just interpreting things that are completely natural as acts of god? Why do we have to 'find' god anyway? Should we take our seniors' word for it? Why does god value belief over worship; shouldn't he just reveal himself to everyone and see who will follow?
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RE: How do I know the things I know?
October 7, 2012 at 12:36 pm
(October 7, 2012 at 2:37 am)Akincana Krishna dasa Wrote: (October 7, 2012 at 2:19 am)IATIA Wrote: Okay, please elaborate on some of the empirical data, experiments and proofs.
Our empirical data consists of quantum physics, proteinoids, evolution and a sundry of other data. Our theories include the Big Bang and quantum mechanics. Our proofs are various experiments verifying quantum processes and the creation of proteinoids in the laboratory.
There is enough information to establish a natural process from the undulating 'space-time' energy soup, prior to the Big Bang, to our present day. Granted there are still holes, but we continue REAL research that plugs these hole one by one. All of this is documented and REPEATABLE BY ANYONE. By anyone, I mean that we can teach a monkey to create self replicating molecules. No magic, no invisible sky-daddy necessary.
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
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RE: How do I know the things I know?
October 8, 2012 at 12:21 am
(This post was last modified: October 8, 2012 at 12:22 am by The Grand Nudger.)
Vedic mythology offers no theories, and no explanations. Vedic mythology offers...wait for it....mythology. You and I are clearly operating on different definitions for the words theory and explanation. Beyond enjoying a story...I fail to see why I would even need what little vedic mythology offers. They got any good bread recipes in there, cure for cancer maybe?
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: How do I know the things I know?
October 8, 2012 at 4:37 am
(This post was last modified: October 8, 2012 at 5:22 am by Akincana Krishna dasa.)
(October 7, 2012 at 11:58 am)Darkstar Wrote: Don't you think that maybe this 'seeing' god is actually just interpreting things that are completely natural as acts of god? Why do we have to 'find' god anyway? Should we take our seniors' word for it? Why does god value belief over worship; shouldn't he just reveal himself to everyone and see who will follow?
1. Maybe, but no, I don't think so. Do you ever think your faith in scientism is actually just interpreting acts of god as completely natural?
2. You certainly don't have to if you don't want to.
3. Depends. Sometimes it's smart to take your seniors words on things, other times, not. I'm sure we've all had both experiences.
4. Who says God values belief over worship? He does reveal Himself to everyone and sees who follows.
(October 8, 2012 at 12:21 am)Rhythm Wrote: Vedic mythology offers no theories, and no explanations. Vedic mythology offers...wait for it....mythology. You and I are clearly operating on different definitions for the words theory and explanation. Beyond enjoying a story...I fail to see why I would even need what little vedic mythology offers. They got any good bread recipes in there, cure for cancer maybe? Vedic knowledge offers a complete explanation of reality from a perfect authority. As for Vedic knowledge offering "mythology" - well, I guess anyone can just say whatever they what about whatever they want, whether they know anything about anything or not. Talk to me what makes something a myth.
Scientism - the view that empirical science can entirely explain reality, based on the fallible authority of the human attempt at knowledge - is a myth.
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RE: How do I know the things I know?
October 8, 2012 at 10:07 am
(This post was last modified: October 8, 2012 at 10:11 am by The Grand Nudger.)
I prefer explanations that actually do some explaining. It's true, anyone can call anything they want mythology, but for the statement to be accurate the thing they are referencing actually has to be mythology. I find it beyond strange that I have to explain to you, a person who feels that myth has granted them knowledge, what a myth is.
Take it away dictionary.com
There ya go.
So, the best you've got - when pressed about your mythology- is to redirect and attack some other view? Good for you. When someone wants to come and argue for scientism you'll be ready for that (and I hope I won't see you asking anyone to "scientifically prove" anything ever again based on that comment btw - wtf "scientifically proved" is supposed to mean.)
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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