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Where does he get meaning? If it gets it from himself, how?
How is it that he can get meaning from himself but we can't get meaning from ourselves?
If you say "God is meaning" why can't we "be meaning"?
What's the purpose of God's existence?
My ignore list
No one is here because I can handle all of you motherfuckers!
"The lord doesn't work in mysterious ways, but in ways that are indistinguishable from his nonexistence."
-- George Yorgo Veenhuyzen quoted by John W. Loftus in The End of Christianity (p. 103).
October 19, 2012 at 8:08 pm (This post was last modified: October 19, 2012 at 8:09 pm by Aroura.)
(October 19, 2012 at 8:06 pm)teaearlgreyhot Wrote: Where does God get value?
Where does he get meaning? If it gets it from himself, how?
How is it that he can get meaning from himself but we can't get meaning from ourselves?
If you say "God is meaning" why can't we "be meaning"?
What's the purpose of God's existence?
I thought god derived his value from us, right? I mean, he created the entire universe and us in it just to worship him so he could have value. Without us, he's entirely meaningless.
Oh, and goats. He gets a lot of value out of dead goats.
Thanks. It's just for my birthday so it's temporary...but it's mainly to irritate the hell out of RD.
My ignore list
No one is here because I can handle all of you motherfuckers!
"The lord doesn't work in mysterious ways, but in ways that are indistinguishable from his nonexistence."
-- George Yorgo Veenhuyzen quoted by John W. Loftus in The End of Christianity (p. 103).
October 19, 2012 at 8:19 pm (This post was last modified: October 19, 2012 at 8:20 pm by Darkstar.)
I've always wondered this too. Theists always say god has objective value, but they never give any reason for it. Just like they never explain why god can come fully formed from nothing when the universe can't come unformed from nothing. Then there is the 'he is eternal' argument that somehow says 'nothing can be eternal, therefore god is the only eternal thing'. First of all, we don't know if the first premise is even true, and second, this is pure speculation. Just think about it; if no one had proposed god before, theorizing about a god would be raw and ultimately fruitless speculation, especially considering that it is one of the less plausible theories about...well, anything he's been invoked to explain.
John Adams Wrote:The Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.
October 19, 2012 at 10:58 pm (This post was last modified: October 19, 2012 at 11:15 pm by Mystic.)
Being original existence, whatever he is, he would be what he is. He eternal is, and this implies he is a necessary being, because whatever existence is, is what it had to be. Ultimate existence is what must be as opposed to non-existence or very small insignificant existence. Non-existence cannot be. Ultimate power is the default existence, it's the necessary existence. Ultimate Value is the default existence.
Why can't we derive value from ourselves? We can, but it needs to have a basis and origin with eternal ultimate objective reality. The reason is, is because all lesser existence, has been created from the ultimate existence and cannot exist on it's own or have no relationship with ultimate reality. That being the case of how things are, it also the case, it must be how things must be.
This is why when a lot of people doubt God, they automatically begin to doubt objective morality, objective value, objective praise, etc...Because God is the foundation of the perception. As they do have an eternal basis, it also turns out it is impossible for them to exist without an eternal basis as that is a property of their existence.
(October 19, 2012 at 8:06 pm)teaearlgreyhot Wrote: Where does God get value?
Where does he get meaning? If it gets it from himself, how?
How is it that he can get meaning from himself but we can't get meaning from ourselves?
If you say "God is meaning" why can't we "be meaning"?
What's the purpose of God's existence?
Only an eternal being can have meaning, mortal humans can not unless they draw that meaning from God. The eternal God is the only One who has the power and presence to keep his meaning unchanging so all can have the same meaning to draw from and live by.
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.
(October 19, 2012 at 11:16 pm)Godschild Wrote: Only an eternal being can have meaning, mortal humans can not unless they draw that meaning from God. The eternal God is the only One who has the power and presence to keep his meaning unchanging so all can have the same meaning to draw from and live by.
But even god does not have an objective purpose. He gave himself a purpose, creator, when he made humanity. If there were no humans to worship him, what would he do? (Also no angels, etc.) God subjectively gave himself the purpose of creator, giving his life meaning. If he stared at a white wall in a daze for eternity, would it be inherently more meaningful than if someone did it for eighty years and then died?
John Adams Wrote:The Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.
(October 19, 2012 at 11:16 pm)Godschild Wrote: Only an eternal being can have meaning,...
Why?
Quote:...mortal humans can not ...
Why?
Quote:...unless they draw that meaning from God.
Why?
Quote:The eternal God is the only One who has the power and presence to keep his meaning unchanging so all can have the same meaning to draw from and live by.
Why?
My ignore list
No one is here because I can handle all of you motherfuckers!
"The lord doesn't work in mysterious ways, but in ways that are indistinguishable from his nonexistence."
-- George Yorgo Veenhuyzen quoted by John W. Loftus in The End of Christianity (p. 103).
October 20, 2012 at 1:23 am (This post was last modified: October 20, 2012 at 1:23 am by Cyberman.)
Sorry G-C, even by your standards this is self-referential, question-begging gibberish.
At the age of five, Skagra decided emphatically that God did not exist. This revelation tends to make most people in the universe who have it react in one of two ways - with relief or with despair. Only Skagra responded to it by thinking, 'Wait a second. That means there's a situation vacant.'
Being original existence, whatever he is, he would be what he is. He eternal is, and this implies he is a necessary being, because whatever existence is, is what it had to be. Ultimate existence is what must be as opposed to non-existence or very small insignificant existence. Non-existence cannot be. Ultimate power is the default existence, it's the necessary existence. Ultimate Value is the default existence.
Why can't we derive value from ourselves? We can, but it needs to have a basis and origin with eternal ultimate objective reality. The reason is, is because all lesser existence, has been created from the ultimate existence and cannot exist on it's own or have no relationship with ultimate reality. That being the case of how things are, it also the case, it must be how things must be.
This is why when a lot of people doubt God, they automatically begin to doubt objective morality, objective value, objective praise, etc...Because God is the foundation of the perception. As they do have an eternal basis, it also turns out it is impossible for them to exist without an eternal basis as that is a property of their existence.
What a load of shit. Talk about gibberish. That has got to rank near the top. Your god existed before everything and anything it required had to be created by it. It created everything but itself. This means your petty sky-daddy needed to create us to satisfy it's own shortcomings.
How does this make it "necessary"?
You make people miserable and there's nothing they can do about it, just like god.
-- Homer Simpson
God has no place within these walls, just as facts have no place within organized religion.
-- Superintendent Chalmers
Science is like a blabbermouth who ruins a movie by telling you how it ends. There are some things we don't want to know. Important things.
-- Ned Flanders
Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral.
-- The Rev Lovejoy
