God's Value Nonexistent?

[kılıç_mehmet]

Where does God get value?

Where does he get meaning? If it gets it from himself, how?

How is it that he can get meaning from himself but we can't get meaning from ourselves?

If you say "God is meaning" why can't we "be meaning"?

What's the purpose of God's existence?

Well, I believe that these are questions that are quite meaningless to ponder on. Unless you meet God face to face and ask him these questions, how can you really know?
Speculations, friend. How, where, why...To me, God is beyond any question that a mortal can produce.

[The Grand Nudger]

Strangely, mortals other than yourself (apparently) are perfectly capable of manufacturing both gods, and questions for them.

[kılıç_mehmet]

Strangely, mortals other than yourself (apparently) are perfectly capable of manufacturing both gods, and questions for them.

Questions without satisfying answers, and no place to actually find these answers are nothing but a waste of time.

[The Grand Nudger]

I think a great many people would disagree with you there Mehm. By and large it does seem that folks are fairly satisfied with the answers they have been given (regardless of their accuracy). I also think that a great many people would disagree with you about lacking a place to find answers for such questions. Neither the believer nor the skeptic lacks opportunity to go looking for answers to questions that might occur to them.

[kılıç_mehmet]

In my view, the only place to get answers regarding God is God.
So you have to either have confidence in works that claim to be te word or work of God, to get answers, but if you disregard these aswell, I think that there are no places to get any answers regarding God.
Given, of course, that you believe in one.
If you don't, there is no real reason to actually state questions about something that you do not believe in to yourself.
Or to others, as a matter of fact.

[The Grand Nudger]

A strange thing to call a given, in my opinion. That being said, why shouldn't I be curious about what others believe or why they believe it? Why shouldn't I be curious about those things which I personally do not subscribe to? Curiosity, to me, seems to be reason enough, and that's just off the top of my head.

I think this last statement of yours is flirting with "If you don't believe that's fine but shut your mouth and don't ask questions" entirely too much.

[Darkstar]

In my view, the only place to get answers regarding God is God.

By 'god' you mean 'revelation', and by 'revelation' I mean either a mental disorder, shocking self delusion, or just plain making it up. I mean, how can the church decide which books are canonical, and which aren't? How can they admit that some are made up and still defend others?

So you have to either have confidence in works that claim to be te word or work of God, to get answers, but if you disregard these aswell, I think that there are no places to get any answers regarding God.

Using my above definition of 'getting answers from god', then yeah.

Given, of course, that you believe in one.
If you don't, there is no real reason to actually state questions about something that you do not believe in to yourself.
Or to others, as a matter of fact.

They believe in it, so it matters to them. We are discussing a concept, but do not think it is real. The theists do think it is real, that is the difference. For us it's "if a god existed, what value would he have, and how would he get it?" The theistic version would simply omit the if. (I know the sentence would be unweildy, but you know what I mean)

[kılıç_mehmet]

By 'god' you mean 'revelation', and by 'revelation' I mean either a mental disorder, shocking self delusion, or just plain making it up. I mean, how can the church decide which books are canonical, and which aren't? How can they admit that some are made up and still defend others?

No, not really. I'm just saying that like talking to God in it's true form, where he can, with his omnipotent powers, make you understand everything, he doesn't even have to face you, or speak to you in his own voice, if he has one.
Of course, if you do not have access to an audition with God in this manner, you have to rely on scripture, written by people who claim that they did. And if you see something that is extraordinary in those words, you believe them.

Besides, it's not just a matter of christianity.
Many religions did not go through the crap that the Christian churches went through when they had to scrap a holy book from various accounts that differ from eachother.

Using my above definition of 'getting answers from god', then yeah.

Same thing, friend. You want answers from God? Can't talk to him in person? You have to get them from somewhere, provided that you believe in his existence.

They believe in it, so it matters to them. We are discussing a concept, but do not think it is real. The theists do think it is real, that is the difference. For us it's "if a god existed, what value would he have, and how would he get it?" The theistic version would simply omit the if. (I know the sentence would be unweildy, but you know what I mean)

And I'm saying that it's meaningless to discuss a concept in which answers are only sought if you actually believe in that concept's truth.

Like if you ask a question "what if God existed", the only answers that you get will be a projection of what you would want God to be.
In other words, you yourself envision yourself as a "creator of the creator". Quite a paradox, if you ask me.

[The Grand Nudger]

Like if you ask a question "what if God existed", the only answers that you get will be a projection of what you would want God to be.
In other words, you yourself envision yourself as a "creator of the creator". Quite a paradox, if you ask me.

In what way would those answers differ from the believers answers?

Show of hands, to any believers interested in responding...is god not what you wish for him to be? Do you wish that god was something else? Anyone?

[Mystic]

is god not what you wish for him to be? Do you wish that god was something else? Anyone?

God even though I don't know exactly what objective morality, is the ultimate moral being.

Perhaps I wish objective morality to be one thing, but in reality it's another thing.

So in one sense, he is exactly as I wish him to be (ultimately great), in another sense, it's possible he is not what I wish him to be (if my perception of greatness is unbalanced for example).