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December 12, 2012 at 7:47 pm (This post was last modified: December 12, 2012 at 7:48 pm by Ryantology.)
We live in a universe filled with worlds beyond counting, which has existed for 14 billion years. I find it worth a giggle that a few primates on this insignificant speck of dust have the arrogance to believe they have exclusive access to the truth of all of that.
Talk about taking long odds. Maybe we'll all see each other in some alien god's version of hell.
December 12, 2012 at 7:48 pm (This post was last modified: December 12, 2012 at 7:49 pm by LastPoet.)
(December 12, 2012 at 4:19 am)CliveStaples Wrote:
(December 11, 2012 at 9:05 am)LastPoet Wrote:
Clive really wants his god to be the staple of morality
At any rate, these "wagers" don't really have an impact on the real world. Most people don't know what Pascal's wager is, let alone this "atheist wager". I put quotes on that because atheism does not provide any morality standards, its just the refusal of that magical being some people are poised to believe.
Oh, no, that's not what I'm getting at. I don't think that morality is a subset of theology--that is, that the only way to get to objective moral values is by way of theism.
Maybe that's true, and maybe it isn't--I am strongly inclined to think that it is false--but it's not what I'm getting at.
The point I'm making is that you can't get an "ought" (prescriptive values) from an "is" (understanding the physical states of the universe). Science doesn't get you to morality. No less an atheist than David Hume argued the same.
You are a bright guy, Clive I give you that, yet, you should know that magic and wishfull gods just does not cut it. I would be the first guy to accept the god you are preaching for if it would be made present to us humans, yet it hides from us. what is it's point? Look at all the christian denominations.
Human morality predates the abrahamic religions. This supports the idea that biology inspired morality. Do we know how EXACTLY? Nope. So until someone comes up with a satisfactory explanation I'll continue to run by that which makes the most sense; extrapolating to others what I would perceive to be good.
Would I want it done to/for me? If the answer is yes, it's PROBABLY good. But if it is questionable by, say, the norms of society, then I must beg permission of the other first lest I do them harm, since again...that is what I would want others to do if in doubt. If the answer is no, then I'm not gonna fucking do it because chances are it'd be bad.
Would I want someone to shank me? No. Then I'm not gonna shank someone else. Would I want to be raped? No. I'm not gonna rape. Would I want to be murdered? No. So I'm not gonna murder.
Would I want someone to make out with me? Maybe. If they ask permission. So I would ask permission.
Would I want someone to give me food if I was starving? Yes? Then I'll give someone who is starving food.
Morality is subjective and the best we can do is apply it subjectively with consideration to the sapience and sentience of other beings.
