Transexuals

[Violet]

I do have a question for Violet and Tara. I saw a documentary on transgendered people. One of which regretted the switch and eventually got reverse surgery. Is it possible for brain chemistry to change over a lifetime making sexual identity fluid rather than stagnant?

Yes, possible. Just as it's possible for your average joe to slowly over time become a sociopath. Likely? Not very, but we are not stagnant, and if it can happen it probably does to someone.

I will say this, only one of the transgendered in that documentary did that. The rest stayed with what the operation and were happy with it. I know that doctors do lots of rigorous pre-op mental conditioning to be sure the change wont be a bad choice for the person. But do we have research as to the ratio of success vs regret after the fact? I would assume that the "regret" ratio would be extremely low in any case.

I actually think the rigorous "mental conditioning" is mostly worthless. Yes, I agree that one should transition (maybe openly, depending) for a year prior to receiving the surgery... but for some of us (say... me), who have been openly living as our gender for over half a decade: it just feels like gatekeeping. There's a reason for the 'standard procedures', and that is one set of guidelines some person wrote once.

They aren't often treated as guidelines, however.

I've heard numbers as high as 10% from non-retarded people... and I've heard numbers as low as 2%. It's somewhere between there, and in an already tiny minority: they stand out a bit more

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But if you do a little research on the people who transition and regret it, you usually see one important facet to them: most of the ones I've seen have been influenced by fundamentalist religious groups. So I put those people in about the same territory I put ex-gays. I guess, since we don't have much in the way of hard-science that tells us what makes people gay or trans or whatever, it's hard to say with certainty that your sexuality or gender identity don't change, but I can say with confidence that prayer isn't gonna do shit to change it.

I would second this... most individual cases I've heard have been towards the following: Botched jobs, religion, and over social matters (married).

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You'd be surprise some of the stupid shit people believe. I mean, can you actually read the story I'm linking and take it seriously?

http://pfox.org/Former_Transgender_Tells_His_Story.html

I don't take that seriously. I mean... really?

[TaraJo]

I would second this... most individual cases I've heard have been towards the following: Botched jobs, religion, and over social matters (married).

Yeah, that too. There are a lot who detransition for social reasons. Largely because being trans is just too difficult for them or it would have cost them their family and they didn't want to lose that. Then again, a lot of those re-transition again later on anyway.

You'd be surprise some of the stupid shit people believe. I mean, can you actually read the story I'm linking and take it seriously?

http://pfox.org/Former_Transgender_Tells_His_Story.html

I don't take that seriously. I mean... really?

Heh. I found it first because I saw a video someone else did on it. Kinda entertaining if you ask me:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ewbmy4wbNeI

[BGChuckLee]

I would second this... most individual cases I've heard have been towards the following: Botched jobs, religion, and over social matters (married).

Yeah, that too. There are a lot who detransition for social reasons. Largely because being trans is just too difficult for them or it would have cost them their family and they didn't want to lose that. Then again, a lot of those re-transition again later on anyway.

I don't take that seriously. I mean... really?

Heh. I found it first because I saw a video someone else did on it. Kinda entertaining if you ask me:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ewbmy4wbNeI

Being gay is not wrong, it was a mistranslation in the Bible- I myself am bisexual, and there is nothing wrong with being horny in such a way. I don't like that person in the video though... The LBG community needs strong voices like me, not passive aggressive losers.

Transexuality, is a different matter- since suicides are between 31-50%, they need urgent help.

[TaraJo]

Transexuality, is a different matter- since suicides are between 31-50%, they need urgent help.

Ok, why do you think suicide rates are so high with transsexuals?

Speaking for myself, I did attempt suicide a few times and I used to cut myself. The reason it was so difficult is because society hates on transsexuals so much. If we had greater social acceptance, if my family hadn't rejected me or it had been easier to find a job, maybe I wouldn't have gone into the emotional tailspin that drove me to attempt suicide.

Also worth considering, I was suicidal before transitioning and then you could argue I didn't have a reason. At least not one that was readily seen by the public. Truth be told, my brain simply couln't do 'happy' without estrogen; I need that chemical to be happy as much as some people need prozac to be happy. Without that happiness, I was constantly in a state of 'nearly suicidal.' Now, though, as long as I can maintain a minimum level of stability in my life, I love life and wouldn't give it up for anything.

[Creed of Heresy]

Mistranslation in the bible, eh? So 2000 years of people who dedicated their lives to understanding and interpreting the bible with far fewer translations and contextualizations just got it all wrong but YOU, two millenia and countless issues with recontextualizing and translations later, have it all over the originators, eh?

Lemme ask you, Chuck; how do you figure?

[BGChuckLee]

Transexuality, is a different matter- since suicides are between 31-50%, they need urgent help.

Ok, why do you think suicide rates are so high with transsexuals?

Speaking for myself, I did attempt suicide a few times and I used to cut myself. The reason it was so difficult is because society hates on transsexuals so much. If we had greater social acceptance, if my family hadn't rejected me or it had been easier to find a job, maybe I wouldn't have gone into the emotional tailspin that drove me to attempt suicide.

Also worth considering, I was suicidal before transitioning and then you could argue I didn't have a reason. At least not one that was readily seen by the public. Truth be told, my brain simply couln't do 'happy' without estrogen; I need that chemical to be happy as much as some people need prozac to be happy. Without that happiness, I was constantly in a state of 'nearly suicidal.' Now, though, as long as I can maintain a minimum level of stability in my life, I love life and wouldn't give it up for anything.

I am sorry that's the case, nobody should want to take their own life. I'm sure some society genuinely hate you, but then again- many of society hates a bisexual as myself- of course it is not as bad as transexuality, but you get my idea- I don't take it personally, in fact I stay far clear from anyone that's passive aggressive/violent in nature, that way I don't have to deal with it.

Transexuality is a strong visual indicator of suicidality, you would agree with that. It is of course not the cause, any more than a gun in the hands of a crazy man is the cause for craziness. You had depression, long before you thought of being trans (as you said.). I have nothing against transexuals, I just think they need urgent help, since there's almost half a chance that they will kill themselves (you can personally testify to this). I don't like how people pretend that it's normal and healthy- it's not. I don't care what you say, if almost half your demographic offs them self, there is something wrong with it.

[TaraJo]

*sigh* Such a short paragraph, but so much fail in it. I'm gonna have to take this one bit by bit.

Transexuality is a strong visual indicator of suicidality, you would agree with that.

Besides your faulty use of the word 'visual,' I agree that trans people are more likely to be suicidal. However, where we disagree is why we're more likely to be suicidal and what can be done about it.

You see, another common thread with transsexuals is that so many of us spend years trying to 'cure' ourselves and make those trans feelings go away. Guess what? They never do. Some of us kill ourselves simply because it feels like that's the only way to fix it.

It is of course not the cause, any more than a gun in the hands of a crazy man is the cause for craziness.

I'm afraid your analogy just doesn't make sense here. Care to try again?

You had depression, long before you thought of being trans (as you said.).

Long before I realized I was trans, yes. Looking back with hindsight being 20/20, I realize that I was always trans and transitioning a long time ago would have helped resolve a lot of those emotional problems.

I have nothing against transexuals, I just think they need urgent help,

What 'help' would you suggest? Be specific, now, and keep in mind that reparitive therapy has routinely been proven to be a bunch of quackery.

since there's almost half a chance that they will kill themselves (you can personally testify to this). I don't like how people pretend that it's normal and healthy- it's not.

Yes, a lot of us attempt, or even commit, suicide. But your own attitudes contribute to those suicide rates.

[BGChuckLee]

*sigh* Such a short paragraph, but so much fail in it. I'm gonna have to take this one bit by bit.

Transexuality is a strong visual indicator of suicidality, you would agree with that.

Besides your faulty use of the word 'visual,' I agree that trans people are more likely to be suicidal. However, where we disagree is why we're more likely to be suicidal and what can be done about it.

You see, another common thread with transsexuals is that so many of us spend years trying to 'cure' ourselves and make those trans feelings go away. Guess what? They never do. Some of us kill ourselves simply because it feels like that's the only way to fix it.

It is of course not the cause, any more than a gun in the hands of a crazy man is the cause for craziness.

I'm afraid your analogy just doesn't make sense here. Care to try again?

You had depression, long before you thought of being trans (as you said.).

Long before I realized I was trans, yes. Looking back with hindsight being 20/20, I realize that I was always trans and transitioning a long time ago would have helped resolve a lot of those emotional problems.

I have nothing against transexuals, I just think they need urgent help,

What 'help' would you suggest? Be specific, now, and keep in mind that reparitive therapy has routinely been proven to be a bunch of quackery.

since there's almost half a chance that they will kill themselves (you can personally testify to this). I don't like how people pretend that it's normal and healthy- it's not.

Yes, a lot of us attempt, or even commit, suicide. But your own attitudes contribute to those suicide rates.

Well, if you do kill yourself- can I have your computer?
I can't convince you to change your ways, only you can do it.

[TaraJo]

Well, if you do kill yourself- can I have your computer? I can't convince you to change your ways, only you can do it.

That's the thing, buddy: I no longer have any desire to kill myself. I wanted to die before, but back then I would have been more likely to track you down and murder you in your sleep than kill myself. Are you saying that's what you want?

[BGChuckLee]

Well, if you do kill yourself- can I have your computer? I can't convince you to change your ways, only you can do it.

That's the thing, buddy: I no longer have any desire to kill myself. I wanted to die before, but back then I would have been more likely to track you down and murder you in your sleep than kill myself. Are you saying that's what you want?

Is that a threat of murder? if you try to harm me, I will not spare you from full self defence.