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Hell might not be eternal
February 25, 2013 at 11:11 am
(This post was last modified: February 25, 2013 at 11:16 am by WinterHold.)
I have spent a lot of time studying the theory of hell in Islam, and this is my final conclusion on the matter of hell being eternal or not .
This opinion was built on a verse in the Quran, it's called "the exceptional verse". In the language of the Quran, the exception is when god attaches something to his will.
Verse :
"But the miserable ones/ the tired ones, are in hell, to them in it an exhalation & inhalation () dwelling in it as long as the earth & the skies last, except what god have wished, god does what he wants "
This part in red, attaches the eternal punishment to god's will. The blue part then is what made this idea clearer. The next verse explains why this idea does prove itself to be true ; that hell isn't eternal :
"But the ones who are happy , are in heaven, dwelling it as long as the earth & the skies last, except what god have wished, unstoppable bestowal".
In here, the blue part proves that the wish of god for the people of heaven is "unstoppable bestowal". While with the people of hell, it was "god does what he wants".
This verse eliminates any theory which states that hell is eternal, but more likely stops at the will of god, without any promises of salvation or damnation.
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RE: Hell might not be eternal
February 25, 2013 at 11:25 am
What in earth are you talking about? There's no hell!
Can you imagine the comfort of not believing in any of this?
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RE: Hell might not be eternal
February 25, 2013 at 12:03 pm
(February 25, 2013 at 11:25 am)Dee Dee Ramone Wrote: What in earth are you talking about? There's no hell!
Can you imagine the comfort of not believing in any of this?
I can discuss fairy tales freely in the Islamic section :p
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RE: Hell might not be eternal
February 25, 2013 at 12:13 pm
Doesn't that just as much suggest a temporary heaven as it does a temporary hell?
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RE: Hell might not be eternal
February 25, 2013 at 1:01 pm
(February 25, 2013 at 12:13 pm)Insanity x Wrote: Doesn't that just as much suggest a temporary heaven as it does a temporary hell?
it's the description of the wish that differs between the verses.
Attaching the continuation of heaven or hell to the wish of god is in red. Explaining the wish itself is in blue.
For heaven, the wish of god was described us "unstoppable bestowal".
For Hell, the wish was described as "whatever god wants", rather than "unstoppable torture".
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RE: Hell might not be eternal
February 25, 2013 at 1:12 pm
(February 25, 2013 at 1:01 pm)AtlasS Wrote: For heaven, the wish of god was described us "unstoppable bestowal".
For Hell, the wish was described as "whatever god wants", rather than "unstoppable torture".
I see. Quite interesting. I don't really think I can comment or discuss really. English translations of the Qur'an do my head in so I never could get that far into reading it. Even then I am dubious in trusting how accurate the translations are. Maybe I'll attempt to get over my terrible inability to learn languages and learn Arabic one day.
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RE: Hell might not be eternal
February 25, 2013 at 2:12 pm
(February 25, 2013 at 1:12 pm)Insanity x Wrote: I see. Quite interesting. I don't really think I can comment or discuss really. English translations of the Qur'an do my head in so I never could get that far into reading it. Even then I am dubious in trusting how accurate the translations are. Maybe I'll attempt to get over my terrible inability to learn languages and learn Arabic one day.
I think you should  learning english was one of the best experiences I had.. though trying to pronounce "R" with an accent wasn't that pleasant.
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RE: Hell might not be eternal
February 25, 2013 at 2:19 pm
(This post was last modified: February 25, 2013 at 2:22 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(February 25, 2013 at 11:11 am)AtlasS Wrote: This verse eliminates any theory which states that hell is eternal, but more likely stops at the will of god, without any promises of salvation or damnation.
It does no such thing, whether or not a soul spends it's eternity in hell or not (and whether it -is- in fact in hell or not and for what)- is known only by Allah. The verse implies that Allah reserves the right to move the denizens of hell to heaven, but it does not prohibit him from condemning whomever He wishes to eternity in hell, as nothing can prohibit Allah from anything, being the Most High.
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RE: Hell might not be eternal
February 25, 2013 at 2:36 pm
(This post was last modified: February 25, 2013 at 2:45 pm by Angrboda.)
(February 25, 2013 at 11:11 am)AtlasS Wrote: I have spent a lot of time studying the theory of hell in Islam, and this is my final conclusion on the matter of hell being eternal or not .
This opinion was built on a verse in the Quran, it's called "the exceptional verse". In the language of the Quran, the exception is when god attaches something to his will.
Verse :
"But the miserable ones/ the tired ones, are in hell, to them in it an exhalation & inhalation () dwelling in it as long as the earth & the skies last, except what god have wished, god does what he wants "
This part in red, attaches the eternal punishment to god's will. The blue part then is what made this idea clearer. The next verse explains why this idea does prove itself to be true ; that hell isn't eternal :
My interpretation of the phrase "god does what he wants" in the first verse was that this was a direct reference to Allah's merciful nature in that he may suspend the natural fate of the dead and deliver them unto eternal bliss instead (cf. the Protestant Christian concept of sola gratia). In that sense, the discretion of Allah which is at issue is not that of the duration of punishment but rather his discretion in choosing not to punish at all. Furthermore, it's not clear that the verse is saying anything beyond that Allah is possessed of the possibility of suspension of sentence, not that he will do so, or ever in fact does. (And I can't help but wonder if this deference to Allah's potency and choice isn't in some sense a literary or idiomatic expression of 'Islam' [submission].)
Beyond that, I don't know much about Islam, but I have noticed in prior discussions that you seem to discount the validity of reasoning from ahadith or sunnah, which while certainly your prerogative, is to my understanding, rather unorthodox. [Though in this perhaps you are simply expressing a rather extreme opinion against the practice of kalam.] Regardless, doing so lands you in the swamp of hermeneutical problems which plagues anyone who uses a text — any text — as foundational [in the philosophical sense as serving as the foundation for knowledge]. The same problems, and their implications, similarly plague fundamentalist Christians and other literalists, despite them, and you, being oblivious to the consequences of such for their arguments and beliefs. However, I am going to defer here on the epistemological problems of literalism, as there is plenty of elaboration on that elsewhere here and on the web.
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RE: Hell might not be eternal
February 25, 2013 at 3:26 pm
(This post was last modified: February 25, 2013 at 3:26 pm by Minimalist.)
Quote:Hell might not be eternal.
Fixed that for you.
In fact, it is as idiotic a concept as "heaven."
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