Dawkins blasts segregation on twitter.

[Brian37]

http://www.mediaite.com/online/richard-d...-they-are/

[Something completely different]

Islam really loves women.





to death.

[Brian37]

They do don't they? Warms my heart to know how fucking ass backwards they are. *cough*

Oh and to any Muslim reading this. Don't bitch at me. If you claim your religion should not or does not treat women like property, clean your own house and don't bitch about me. We in the west DO NOT treat women like property. Women are equals.

To any Muslim reading this who DOES think women should be subject to men, FUCK YOU!

[Tiberius]

Oh and to any Muslim reading this. Don't bitch at me. If you claim your religion should not or does not treat women like property, clean your own house and don't bitch about me. We in the west DO NOT treat women like property. Women are equals.

*sigh*

So many generalizations. You are full of bullshit.

Muslims follow many different branches of Islam. There exist both conservative and liberal Muslims. Painting all Muslims with the same brush is a despicable attitude.

Oh yeah, and I'd like to see some evidence that "we in the west" do not treat women like property. Granted, a lot of people don't, but if you think women and men are equal in the west you are deluding yourself.

[Something completely different]

Islam has a horrible view of women. Nothing in the world will change that, and the fact that islamic countries are death traps for women says it all.


Yeah christianity also isnt that nice to women, but unlike the fools in the islamic world, the rest of the world has learned to keep their religious beliefs on track with time and evolve a bit.

[Brian37]

Oh and to any Muslim reading this. Don't bitch at me. If you claim your religion should not or does not treat women like property, clean your own house and don't bitch about me. We in the west DO NOT treat women like property. Women are equals.

*sigh*

So many generalizations. You are full of bullshit.

Muslims follow many different branches of Islam. There exist both conservative and liberal Muslims. Painting all Muslims with the same brush is a despicable attitude.

Oh yeah, and I'd like to see some evidence that "we in the west" do not treat women like property. Granted, a lot of people don't, but if you think women and men are equal in the west you are deluding yourself.

You think I don't know that there are liberal Muslims? Really?

Sam Harris would say the same thing to liberal theists, clean your own house before you complain about me. Coddling the insecurities of even liberals allows the nuts in their bunch cover. The idea is to shame the violent people in all religions. The idea is to shame sexism out of existence.

I think you are making generalizations about my posts as if I don't know how the real world works. First off Malala is a Muslim and MY HERO, but that does not mean I shouldn't put pressure on her community to get her nuts to stop doing stupid things like shooting her for merely wanting an education.

Women are not property, now while there are moderate Muslims and liberal Muslims, there still are far too many wingnuts who DO treat women like property, should we coddle them?

Dawkins was absolutely right for blasting those Muslims. Making women sit in the back of the room is no different to me than making blacks sit at the back of the bus.

I just talked to a Pakistani atheist, who knows what the nuts can do and do all the time in his country. He condemned the burning of Christian houses, but in doing so, if discovered, he wouldn't be just subject to verbal insults, those Muslims will murder him. Malala would not. Malala got shot by her fellow Muslims and rightfully even Muslims condemned this. But not enough.

Otherwise if you think it is ok to force women to sit in the back of the room you are coddling a sexist meme rooted in a sexist religion. So what if not all Muslims do this, but far too many do. We need to as a species empower women, not subjugate them.

[TromboneAtheist]

Admittedly, there were several generalizations in his post, but they had a little truth in them. His post most certainly not full of bullshit. He didn't say all Muslims were like that. No doubt, gender equality is not yet a reality "in the west", but it's a damn sight better compared to the Islamic Middle East.

[Rayaan]

Oh and to any Muslim reading this. Don't bitch at me. If you claim your religion should not or does not treat women like property, clean your own house and don't bitch about me. We in the west DO NOT treat women like property. Women are equals.

My opinion is that Islam doesn't teach us to treat women like property. And they certainly shouldn't be treated that way. The differences mainly arise from the fact that Muslims have a variety of religious branches and socio-political ideas and principles which they adhere to. Some Muslims are conservative, others are liberal, and others fall somewhere between, although all claim that their views on women are based on Islam. The Muslims who hold to a more traditional (and conservative) position believe that women’s leadership roles in Muslim societies should be restricted while, on the other hand, Muslims with a liberal position say that the conservative position has no basis in Islam.

And in fact, Muslim women have already held high positions in the office and they have been even prime ministers and heads of state in some of the key Muslim nations such as Indonesia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Turkey, for example. So what you wrote is full of generalizations indeed as Tiberius rightly noted.

[Tiberius]

You think I don't know that there are liberal Muslims? Really?

No. I think you paint them with the same brush you paint the asshole ones with.

Sam Harris would say the same thing to liberal theists, clean your own house before you complain about me.

Sam Harris has also stated that Muslims should be profiled at airports; it doesn't surprise me that you'd side with him. I think he's wrong too. It's this ridiculous attitude that one's religious beliefs are dictated wholly by whatever generic religion they subscribe to. If someone calls themselves a "Christian", all it really tells you is that they believe Jesus is the son of God. It doesn't tell you if they are "Church of England" or Westboro Baptist. Same thing applies with Muslims. All a Muslim is is someone who believes that Muhammad was a prophet. That doesn't tell you whether they hate women or think women should have equal rights. Heck, it doesn't even tell you if they agreed with Muhammad marrying a young girl.

Coddling the insecurities of even liberals allows the nuts in their bunch cover. The idea is to shame the violent people in all religions. The idea is to shame sexism out of existence.

I have no problem shaming the violent people in religion. I have a problem when you try to do it by shaming the non-violent people in religion, as if they are somehow connected just because they both call themselves "Muslim".

I think you are making generalizations about my posts as if I don't know how the real world works. First off Malala is a Muslim and MY HERO, but that does not mean I shouldn't put pressure on her community to get her nuts to stop doing stupid things like shooting her for merely wanting an education.

You quite clearly don't know how the real world works if you think Malala's community needs to be told to get off their asses over the Taliban. The reason Malala got shot was because she was fighting the Taliban by ignoring their laws. She knows the Taliban need to be removed; I'd say she knows this more than anyone. It does not mean she is somehow complacent in what they do.

Women are not property, now while there are moderate Muslims and liberal Muslims, there still are far too many wingnuts who DO treat women like property, should we coddle them?

No, and I never said we should. I just don't see the point in putting pressure on the people who aren't doing anything wrong, just because some other people in their religion are doing stuff that is wrong.

Dawkins was absolutely right for blasting those Muslims. Making women sit in the back of the room is no different to me than making blacks sit at the back of the bus.

Yes he was, but if you re-read his tweets, you'll see even he makes sure to direct his anger at specific Muslims, not at all of them:

"Who the hell do these Muslims think they are?"

Bolding mine. He did not say "Who the hell do Muslims think they are?", which seems like what you think he should have said.

I just talked to a Pakistani atheist, who knows what the nuts can do and do all the time in his country. He condemned the burning of Christian houses, but in doing so, if discovered, he wouldn't be just subject to verbal insults, those Muslims will murder him. Malala would not. Malala got shot by her fellow Muslims and rightfully even Muslims condemned this. But not enough.

Agreed, but it isn't the fault of the non-violent Muslims, nor it is their responsibility. As you've pointed out, if these Muslims speak out they get threatened, hurt, or killed. It's very easy to sit back and say "you nice Muslims should sort the violent lot out", but it's very hard for those Muslims to actually go and do what you've said.

Otherwise if you think it is ok to force women to sit in the back of the room you are coddling a sexist meme rooted in a sexist religion. So what if not all Muslims do this, but far too many do. We need to as a species empower women, not subjugate them.

I don't think it's ok to force women to sit in the back of the room. I can't see anywhere in my post where you could have gotten this idea.

[Brian37]

Oh and to any Muslim reading this. Don't bitch at me. If you claim your religion should not or does not treat women like property, clean your own house and don't bitch about me. We in the west DO NOT treat women like property. Women are equals.

My opinion is that Islam doesn't teach us to treat women like property. And they certainly shouldn't be treated that way. The differences mainly arise from the fact that Muslims have a variety of religious branches and socio-political ideas and principles which they adhere to. Some Muslims are conservative, others are liberal, and others fall somewhere between, although all claim that their views on women are based on Islam. The Muslims who hold to a more traditional (and conservative) position believe that women’s leadership roles in Muslim societies should be restricted while, on the other hand, Muslims with a liberal position say that the conservative position has no basis in Islam.

And in fact, Muslim women have already held high positions in the office and they have been even prime ministers and heads of state in some of the key Muslim nations such as Indonesia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Turkey, for example. So what you wrote is full of generalizations indeed as Tiberius rightly noted.

What generalizations? Muslims shot a Muslim girl, am I lying about that? So the news of an innocent 14 year old Muslim girl getting shot because other Muslims were cowards who didn't want her to get an education, so that story was made up?

And when did the idea of seating women behind men and making them walk behind men, when did that tradition start? Last year?No it comes out of a sexist past because of a very sexist book, just like the bible. Because in a very literal sense sexism in most cultures in antiquity was acceptable.

Do you think western women who are not Muslim would put up with that? Next non Muslim event yo go to see if you can make those women sit in the back and see if they do it.

Seriously since when did saying to women "You don't have to do that if you don't want to and you don't need any man's permission to do anything" please tell me why spreading that should be treated like a crime?

Do women need men's permission? If they don't then I do not see any crime telling women that. Otherwise you are coddling the insecurities of men in a very sexist tradition.

I don't see that as helping women anymore than telling Susan B Anthony "Don't rock the boat, you are upsetting their social norm".

You want to keep women in chains and make this a label issue. I would say the same of Amish women and LDS women, they are oppressed by men too.

It is true that there ARE westernized women who come from even Hindu and Sikh backgrounds who wear the "traditional" garb and play the "women's role" , but when there are still too many women who are simply raised in it they grow up not really having a choice because it is so deeply ingrained in them. And I doubt you could get Ayaan Hersi Ali who escaped Islam to agree that what I am doing is wrong.

This is a human rights issue and women of the west as well as men of the west do ALL girls/women a disservice no matter where they live by not speaking out, be it about Amish, LDS or Muslim or Hindu.

You are falsely assuming I am making broad generalizations.

Women have the right to sit where they want do what they want and be what they want. They don't owe any Hindu or Sikh or Jewish or Amish or Muslim man any explanation if they don't want to. I refuse to coddle the insecurities of any idiot who cant let their women make choices for themselves.

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http://www.amazon.com/Escape-Carolyn-Jes...0767927575
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infidel_%28book%29

I doubt these women would disagree with Dawkins. Oh and while we are at it, tell me when the last time a woman trapped in these nut farms was allowed to lead a Church or Mosque like men do?

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Oh and to any Muslim reading this. Don't bitch at me. If you claim your religion should not or does not treat women like property, clean your own house and don't bitch about me. We in the west DO NOT treat women like property. Women are equals.

My opinion is that Islam doesn't teach us to treat women like property. And they certainly shouldn't be treated that way. The differences mainly arise from the fact that Muslims have a variety of religious branches and socio-political ideas and principles which they adhere to. Some Muslims are conservative, others are liberal, and others fall somewhere between, although all claim that their views on women are based on Islam. The Muslims who hold to a more traditional (and conservative) position believe that women’s leadership roles in Muslim societies should be restricted while, on the other hand, Muslims with a liberal position say that the conservative position has no basis in Islam.

And in fact, Muslim women have already held high positions in the office and they have been even prime ministers and heads of state in some of the key Muslim nations such as Indonesia, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and Turkey, for example. So what you wrote is full of generalizations indeed as Tiberius rightly noted.

SO? AND does that change that there are still women who are stuck in hellholes? Don't use this "progress has been made" as an excuse to stop. Iran and India and even America still have asshole men who STILL live in the past. To deny that is foolish and a detriment to women world wide.