How did you work it out?

[Little Rik]

Napoleon................There is no such thing as a sense which goes beyond this 'physicality', this universe. If you think you have one, you're quite simply deluded.

Some million of years ago there was no dolphin. There was instead a land creature that decided to go in the water and slow, slow developed all the organs to live in the sea. After that even developed the sonar in order to make his life more and more easy. The same apply to the birds. Originally they were dinosaurs.
It is the strong desire to survive and to evolve that make us and everybody else made important changes.
But this desire is driven by our feeling that by going ahead all the time toward an unknown destination we will find total peace of mind.
As the changes occur physically they can also occur mentally and spiritually.
The potential for change is within each of us. We may or may not perceive this according to our desire to go ahead or not but the potential is there.
IF you dont have the desire to go ahead there is no way that you can develop the senses that will allow you to do so.
As a dolphin developed the sonar also you can develop a sense that at the moment you do not have.
Few hundreds of year ago people thought that the planet earth was flat and was the center of the universe, at the same time in year 2013 people still think that the physical senses are the only senses that we have. Sad indeed.

[paulpablo]

Napoleon................There is no such thing as a sense which goes beyond this 'physicality', this universe. If you think you have one, you're quite simply deluded.

Some million of years ago there was no dolphin. There was instead a land creature that decided to go in the water and slow, slow developed all the organs to live in the sea. After that even developed the sonar in order to make his life more and more easy. The same apply to the birds. Originally they were dinosaurs.
It is the strong desire to survive and to evolve that make us and everybody else made important changes.
But this desire is driven by our feeling that by going ahead all the time toward an unknown destination we will find total peace of mind.
As the changes occur physically they can also occur mentally and spiritually.
The potential for change is within each of us. We may or may not perceive this according to our desire to go ahead or not but the potential is there.
IF you dont have the desire to go ahead there is no way that you can develop the senses that will allow you to do so.
As a dolphin developed the sonar also you can develop a sense that at the moment you do not have.
Few hundreds of year ago people thought that the planet earth was flat and was the center of the universe, at the same time in year 2013 people still think that the physical senses are the only senses that we have. Sad indeed.

I don't know who this criticism is addressed to but I haven't said the only things that exist are what we know about or anything like that, I'm saying we can only realistically make speculations about what we know about. You saying there is a god because we don't know what exists outside of the laws of physics is just the same as me saying we don't know what exists outside the laws of physics therefore there are 12 giant computers controlling the universe, both are just as likely. And if you're talking about things that exist outside of the laws of the physics then the options are basically how many thing can you think of that could be outside of the laws of physics? A giant mushroom that has always existed, 10 virgins with the heads of mushrooms that have always existed and have forearms infinitely large. The list itself is infinite.

[Little Rik]

paulpablo..............But a scientist and a religious person trying to speculate what lies outside the laws of physics will pointless from both perspectives, both speculations will still be speculations based on no useful evidence.
To use your analogy it would be like getting the computer programmer and the carpenter in a room together and then saying "here's a dildo, go and perform your carpenter and computer programming duties with this"

Peace of mind acquired through intuitional science is no speculation at all.
It is reality and probably can even be measured with scientific instruments.

[paulpablo]

paulpablo..............But a scientist and a religious person trying to speculate what lies outside the laws of physics will pointless from both perspectives, both speculations will still be speculations based on no useful evidence.
To use your analogy it would be like getting the computer programmer and the carpenter in a room together and then saying "here's a dildo, go and perform your carpenter and computer programming duties with this"

Peace of mind acquired through intuitional science is no speculation at all.
It is reality and probably can even be measured with scientific instruments.

what do you mean?

[Little Rik]

paulpablo........I don't know who this criticism is addressed to but I haven't said the only things that exist are what we know about or anything like that, I'm saying we can only realistically make speculations about what we know about. You saying there is a god because we don't know what exists outside of the laws of physics is just the same as me saying we don't know what exists outside the laws of physics therefore there are 12 giant computers controlling the universe, both are just as likely. And if you're talking about things that exist outside of the laws of the physics then the options are basically how many thing can you think of that could be outside of the laws of physics? A giant mushroom that has always existed, 10 virgins with the heads of mushrooms that have always existed and have forearms infinitely large. The list itself is infinite.

When you got something in your hands you can not say anymore that that thing is a speculation.
At the same time when the peace of mind is building stronger and stronger within yourself as you proceed towards the goal of life you also can not say anymore that that is a speculation.

[paulpablo]

paulpablo........I don't know who this criticism is addressed to but I haven't said the only things that exist are what we know about or anything like that, I'm saying we can only realistically make speculations about what we know about. You saying there is a god because we don't know what exists outside of the laws of physics is just the same as me saying we don't know what exists outside the laws of physics therefore there are 12 giant computers controlling the universe, both are just as likely. And if you're talking about things that exist outside of the laws of the physics then the options are basically how many thing can you think of that could be outside of the laws of physics? A giant mushroom that has always existed, 10 virgins with the heads of mushrooms that have always existed and have forearms infinitely large. The list itself is infinite.

When you got something in your hands you can not say anymore that that thing is a speculation.
At the same time when the peace of mind is building stronger and stronger within yourself as you proceed towards the goal of life you also can not say anymore that that is a speculation.

There are some points to be made here,

1 You can have something in your hand and still not be certain about what it is and speculate about what it is.

2 You were talking about things outside the laws of physics and the universe so this wouldn't ever be in the palm of someones hand or be compared to a goal someone has in life.

3 I don't understand what piece of mind has to do with making up speculations on things that are outside the universe and the laws of physics.

[Little Rik]

Peace of mind acquired through intuitional science is no speculation at all.
It is reality and probably can even be measured with scientific instruments.

what do you mean?

There may be or will be invented an instrument that can measure the state of the mind and compare that to other people mind in order to establish parameters of knowledge in that particular field of perception.

---

paulpablo.............1 You can have something in your hand and still not be certain about what it is and speculate about what it is.

Who is speculating? I know i have something because is part of me.

2 You were talking about things outside the laws of physics and the universe so this wouldn't ever be in the palm of someones hand or be compared to a goal someone has in life.

The body will one day rot.
You are not the body, you are the driver and when the car rot you get a new car in order to reach the goal or the arrival point.
The goal of life is not this physical universe that is why the physical laws that control this universe are only valid as long as we keep a physical body.

3 I don't understand what piece of mind has to do with making up speculations on things that are outside the universe and the laws of physics.

Again, i do not make speculation.


Sorry, i got to go now, see you next time.

[smax]

For me, it's really this simple:

There are many things that simply cannot be explained or understood by our human minds. For example: the universe is seemingly endless, but there is no reasonable explanation available (and I do mean NONE) for this fact. And that is only one of many thousands of mysteries that will most likely never be solved by the human mind. The answers most likely exists on a level we don't have the capacity for.

For that reason, I don't rule out the possibility that a higher power (or something) is responsible our existence. To qualify that, however, I don't necessarily think the common perception of a "god" applies. Most people view "god" not only as something they can understand, but also as something similar to themselves. For that reason, I think the god that exists for most people is some ego driven fantasy of themselves in perfect form. The title and purpose of people's religion isn't nearly as important to them as the fact that they are a part of it, which alone validates the religion, it's beliefs, and it's practices.

This explains why almost every version of god that human beings have invented is interactive with and invested in the human struggle. People do not truly believe that they need god, they believe that god needs them, and they are simply being saintly to oblige him.

That god, for me, can be completely ruled out.

There is no reason to believe that we are important on any cosmic level.

[Little Rik]

NoMoreFaith..................I agree the right tool for the right job.
Let me know when someone uses anything other than the tool of Imagination for God.

According to yoga philosophy this universe is the imagination of God but at the same time is all real for those who play the role in his imagination.
Very hard to believe but you never know what is real and what is not.
What a surprise would be if one day you will have to face this God?
He may say to you ............. you cheeky boy.....you thought you could live outside my imagination eh!

---

For me, it's really this simple:

There are many things that simply cannot be explained or understood by our human minds. For example: the universe is seemingly endless, but there is no reasonable explanation available (and I do mean NONE) for this fact. And that is only one of many thousands of mysteries that will most likely never be solved by the human mind. The answers most likely exists on a level we don't have the capacity for.

For that reason, I don't rule out the possibility that a higher power (or something) is responsible our existence. To qualify that, however, I don't necessarily think the common perception of a "god" applies. Most people view "god" not only as something they can understand, but also as something similar to themselves. For that reason, I think the god that exists for most people is some ego driven fantasy of themselves in perfect form. The title and purpose of people's religion isn't nearly as important to them as the fact that they are a part of it, which alone validates the religion, it's beliefs, and it's practices.
This explains why almost every version of god that human beings have invented is interactive with and invested in the human struggle. People do not truly believe that they need god, they believe that god needs them, and they are simply being saintly to oblige him.
That god, for me, can be completely ruled out.
There is no reason to believe that we are important on any cosmic level.

What most people think does not really worry me so much.
What worry me is rather to progress toward the goal of life and to reduce the distance day after day.
As i already said in previous post it is important to have the desire to go ahead and in order to do this one should not put obstacles that prevent the progress.
Dogmas or false truth are the main problem so it is very important not to create any.
Marx in order to destroy the dogma of capitalism create the dogma of communism.
Atheist in order to destroy the religious dogmaS create materialism and this go against human nature which purpose is to expand away from materialism.

[smax]

NoMoreFaith..................I agree the right tool for the right job.
Let me know when someone uses anything other than the tool of Imagination for God.

According to yoga philosophy this universe is the imagination of God but at the same time is all real for those who play the role in his imagination.
Very hard to believe but you never know what is real and what is not.
What a surprise would be if one day you will have to face this God?
He may say to you ............. you cheeky boy.....you thought you could live outside my imagination eh!

Why is that you (and others) assume that a reckoning with god is imminent?

No, let me be more to the point:

Why is it that you assume that other people are heading for a inevitable reckoning with god?

Could it be the very god-complex condition I mentioned in my previous post?

By that I simple mean that (a) we are so important that our conduct and beliefs must be evaluated post mortality and (b) that you (and others like you) are somehow privileged to god's particular criteria on this matter.

Do you understand the point I'm making?

Everthing you think you know about god is actually a mere projection of what you know of yourself and what YOU value.

If there is a higher power, doesn't it stand to reason that we would have no idea how that power operates or works?

Don't you think it's ridiculous and small minded to minimize such a power or force by lowering it to human pettiness and terms?

I'll answer for you. The answer is yes it is ridiculous. But it's consistent with the method that is almost always used while inventing god.