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Godscreated · April 16, 2013 at 10:55 pm

(April 16, 2013 at 7:54 am)Waratah Wrote:
(April 16, 2013 at 3:55 am)Godschild Wrote: The knowledge of God's existence does not contravene God given free will, I did not say it did, what I said was when Christ returns your free will is gone, no more, vanished, taken away and ect. This is the price of rejection people will pay, there's no free ride in life why would you believe there would be with God.

So you get to keep free will, ONLY if you choose god?

Sounds like free will has already been taken no matter what you do. According to you we are all fucked(free will wise).

Not really sure how you came to that conclusion from what I said. Yep that's right free will stays with the saved, sorry, that's how it's to be.

**Ryantology** · (This post was last modified: April 17, 2013 at 12:11 am by Ryantology.)

Why would God give out free will and then go and make it the ultimate criminal offense to use it?

Godscreated · April 17, 2013 at 12:55 am

(April 17, 2013 at 12:09 am)Ryantology Wrote: Why would God give out free will and then go and make it the ultimate criminal offense to use it?

You're using it in a wrong (sinful) manner.

**Ryantology** · April 17, 2013 at 1:41 am

(April 17, 2013 at 12:55 am)Godschild Wrote:
(April 17, 2013 at 12:09 am)Ryantology Wrote: Why would God give out free will and then go and make it the ultimate criminal offense to use it?

You're using it in a wrong (sinful) manner.

Using it at all is sinful, for the 'freedom' implied in 'free will' is the freedom to sin, otherwise we'd all just be obedient robots. Isn't that how it works? Obedience to God is the rejection of your free will, because your will is irrelevant and sinful. It would appear that the only 'correct' expression of free will is to reject free will.

So, as you have not actually answered the question, I'll ask it once again: why would God give out free will and then go and make it the ultimate criminal offense to use it?

Godscreated · April 17, 2013 at 4:40 am

(April 17, 2013 at 1:41 am)Ryantology Wrote:
(April 17, 2013 at 12:55 am)Godschild Wrote: You're using it in a wrong (sinful) manner.

Using it at all is sinful, for the 'freedom' implied in 'free will' is the freedom to sin, otherwise we'd all just be obedient robots. Isn't that how it works? Obedience to God is the rejection of your free will, because your will is irrelevant and sinful. It would appear that the only 'correct' expression of free will is to reject free will.

So, as you have not actually answered the question, I'll ask it once again: why would God give out free will and then go and make it the ultimate criminal offense to use it?

When I came to Christ my free will was and is intact, I still have the free will to reject Him.

Waratah · April 17, 2013 at 5:41 am

(April 16, 2013 at 10:55 pm)Godschild Wrote:
(April 16, 2013 at 7:54 am)Waratah Wrote: So you get to keep free will, ONLY if you choose god?

Sounds like free will has already been taken no matter what you do. According to you we are all fucked(free will wise).

Not really sure how you came to that conclusion from what I said. Yep that's right free will stays with the saved, sorry, that's how it's to be.

Not really sure how you cannot see how I came to that conclusion.

As soon as you put a condition on the use of free will it is NOT free will anymore. Even if you are in agreeance with the condition, free will is gone.

This is what you said

Quote:The knowledge of God's existence does not contravene God given free will, I did not say it did, what I said was when Christ returns your free will is gone, no more, vanished, taken away and ect. This is the price of rejection people will pay, there's no free ride in life why would you believe there would be with God.

The condition in this case is accepting god. "... price of rejection people will pay..."

If you have the ability to laugh at yourself, you maybe now rolling on the floor. Let us hope it is a Smile

at least.

**Ryantology** · April 17, 2013 at 9:07 am

(April 17, 2013 at 4:40 am)Godschild Wrote: When I came to Christ my free will was and is intact, I still have the free will to reject Him.

As my point is that using (not having) 'free will' is sinful, I guess I'm forced to ask the question a third time.

**Esquilax** · April 17, 2013 at 10:28 am

(April 17, 2013 at 4:40 am)Godschild Wrote: When I came to Christ my free will was and is intact, I still have the free will to reject Him.

But in your system this free will is a choice with a gun leveled at your head. You have the choice to not be a christian, that's true; but if you're not, you're going to get punished. It's not a legitimate choice because not all options are equal, the thing is hugely weighted toward a single option to the exclusion of all others. That's the problem.

**Ryantology** · (This post was last modified: April 17, 2013 at 10:36 am by Ryantology.)

The Christian concept of free will is a rapist holding a knife to your throat and giving you the option to scream. It would seem that the Christian idea that the rapist loves you developed as both a coping mechanism for the victims and good PR for the rapist.

~~Drich~~ · April 17, 2013 at 11:11 am

(April 9, 2013 at 2:13 am)FallentoReason Wrote:
(April 9, 2013 at 2:09 am)Undeceived Wrote: So you are accusing Christians of rationalizing. Well, what do you call dreaming up reasons people might convert?

???

The "too long; didn't read" version of the OP would be this:

You're telling us that in order to experience God, we need to use a method that can equally be used to make someone believe whatever you desire.

It is also the same method use to verify truth.

[/quote]

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