North Korea - smear on atheism?

[Faith No More]

So they are not 'true' atheists - they say they are but they are not?

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That question was for FTNM...

I can say that I'm a doctor, but that doesn't mean I am one. Words have specific definitions that don't change simply because we claim they do.

[Napoléon]

atheist philosophy

This is another thing that pisses me off.

Stop going on like atheism is some kind of world view with its own doctrine and rules.

Religion has that. Atheism is the precise opposite.

Calling atheism an entire 'philosophy' in the sense you use it, is flat out misleading.

[Kayenneh]

I couldn't care less for North Korea's 'impact' on atheism. Their values and ideologies come from totally different origins, which has little to do with not believing in gods.

[Fidel_Castronaut]

anyone who knows even the most basic thing about NK will be familiar with the term 'cult of personality'

The Kim's, starting with Kim Il-Sung, elevated themselves above mere dictatorship to the status of gods. Everyone must bow to Kim Il-Sung's picture when they see it, and he still rules the county despite being dead almost 20 years. His title is 'eternal president' after all, not very 'atheistic'.

It is painfully obvious that the OP hasn't done any reading about the establishment of NK or on the Kim dynasty. Otherwise, he would see that equating the de Jure communist manifesto that established the state (NOTE: it is anything but communist now, and all references to Lenin and Marx have been erased from their constitution: http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/09/28/idUSSEO253213) to an imagined preference for atheism (it is imagined. Communism doesn't equal atheism, but I know this will be lost on the OP) is very silly Indeed.

[downbeatplumb]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8-Vr_r36Fg

[Esquilax]

The other thing, that I sort of wish to point out, is this: atheists are allowed to disagree with other atheists. The fact that we do so no more reflects some broader venom in the idea of atheism than religious conflicts tarnish all religion and religious people. Even if we accept, without question or qualification, that North Korea is an atheist state: so fucking what?

Atheism is highly personal, we've all approached it from different directions, and we all get to decide what kind of atheist we are. There's no bible for atheism, no tenets or dogma or rules, beyond the singular belief that we do not have. The actions of any other atheist no more reflect upon me as the actions of any other pants wearer, or any other person who has played Dark Souls.

This whole goddamn conversation is intellectually bankrupt!

[Dawud]

So - it's a smear on the name atheism for the following reason:

They say the state has an atheist ideology but its not really atheist. (They say they are atheists but they are not so are misrepresenting atheism in their lack of understanding)?

@Napolean don't worry - I don't think that atheism is a philosophy or that it carries set beliefs about rationality etc. but I do think some atheists might treat it that way.

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PS Esquilax - I wouldn't be so silly as to imply one atheist doing bad means that atheism is bad.

Just as I would understand that religions mean a whole lot of different things to people and to say that all members of a religion are bad because a person or country claiming to be of that religion do bad things.

I think too that conversations following this line of thought are bankrupt but Im sure they will continue

I think that atheism is just two things mostly:
1 not believing in God
2. Or believing there is no such thing as God

[Esquilax]

So - it's a smear on the name atheism for the following reason:

There's no name to smear. Atheism isn't a club or organization, it's a reaction to a single proposition; that of the existence of gods. There's no more a Capital A "Atheism" to denigrate than there is a Capital P "Pizza" to denigrate whenever Dominoes fucks up my order.

They say the state has an atheist ideology but its not really atheist. (They say they are atheists but they are not so are misrepresenting atheism in their lack of understanding)?

Given that one of Kim Il Sung's many titles was "Heavenly Leader," I'll let you come to your own conclusions about how atheistic North Korea really is...

[Dawud]

Exactly - they are misrepresenting atheism as something that allows a title such as 'Heavenly Leader'

This is obviously not atheism then despite the claim...

That's all I meant as a smear now - misrepresenting atheism in public discourse as something that allows such titles.

I didn't mean a smear on atheists

[The Grand Nudger]

They aren't misrepresenting atheism...lol, they don't give a shit (and there is no atheism to misrepresent in the collective sense of the word). It's just baggage from their political past that they see no reason to shed - because frankly, they aren't accountable to anyone who would call shenanigans in the first place. The gov there could loudly proclaim themselves a democratic, capitalist utopia and the people would probably say "well isn't that nice...you wouldn't by chance have any rice in your pockets would you?".