Posts: 3022
Threads: 34
Joined: May 11, 2013
Reputation:
30
Assuming God?
May 30, 2013 at 8:32 am
I have been debating with a Christian for a while now, he is Catholic I think. Anyway, just now he told me something along the lines of: You assume God to deny him, therefore you believe in him.
My initial reaction was that this was the stupidest thing I had ever heard. But i'm not exactly sure what he meant by this.
Can someone please explain what assuming God means.
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
Posts: 13051
Threads: 66
Joined: February 7, 2011
Reputation:
92
RE: Assuming God?
May 30, 2013 at 8:40 am
Sounds like the typical religious defense mechanism to me. Rather than accept that people are justified in not believing in god due to lack of evidence, they have convinced themselves that anyone that doesn't believe in god secretly really does believe.
Even if the open windows of science at first make us shiver after the cozy indoor warmth of traditional humanizing myths, in the end the fresh air brings vigor, and the great spaces have a splendor of their own - Bertrand Russell
Posts: 3022
Threads: 34
Joined: May 11, 2013
Reputation:
30
RE: Assuming God?
May 30, 2013 at 8:45 am
Yea thats exactly what I thought but I would like an explanation from someone who actually believes this, just to see exactly what they think
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
Posts: 18503
Threads: 79
Joined: May 29, 2010
Reputation:
125
RE: Assuming God?
May 30, 2013 at 8:49 am
I bet he/she assumes santa claus, the fairy tooth, the boogeyman to deny them, therefore he believes in them. It is a simple contradiction, as in terms of belief either you believe or you do not. It is a rather infantile argument to use.
Posts: 815
Threads: 66
Joined: October 8, 2010
Reputation:
11
RE: Assuming God?
May 30, 2013 at 8:54 am
(This post was last modified: May 30, 2013 at 8:54 am by little_monkey.)
Basically what LastPoet said.
What that dude is saying: first you have to assume a God, in order to deny it. So therefore you had to believe in him.
The logic is so twisted but that's what you get from someone who is naive, gullible and self-deluded. They go to great lengths to justify their beliefs, even if the logic is complete nonsense.
Posts: 3022
Threads: 34
Joined: May 11, 2013
Reputation:
30
RE: Assuming God?
May 30, 2013 at 9:06 am
Funnily enough I have told him his logic is twisted many times but he doenst believe me. Any Christians who would comment on this would be much appreciated
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
Posts: 11260
Threads: 61
Joined: January 5, 2013
Reputation:
123
RE: Assuming God?
May 30, 2013 at 9:08 am
There's also this tremendous egotistical streak in this argument; you have to assume god (obviously the specific god of the person making the argument, too) in order to disbelieve. Read: You secretly know I'm right, you're just being difficult, and now I'm justified in operating under the idea that all the time we're debating, we both understand the unassailable correctness of my position.
Like there's no possibility that the idea of being wrong ever crossed the fucker's mind.
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
Want to see more of my writing? Check out my (safe for work!) site, Unprotected Sects!
Posts: 18503
Threads: 79
Joined: May 29, 2010
Reputation:
125
RE: Assuming God?
May 30, 2013 at 9:29 am
Why wouldn't you wish for a good god with similar concerns to yours?
Posts: 13392
Threads: 187
Joined: March 18, 2012
Reputation:
48
RE: Assuming God?
May 30, 2013 at 9:35 am
(May 30, 2013 at 8:32 am)Rationalman Wrote: I have been debating with a Christian for a while now, he is Catholic I think. Anyway, just now he told me something along the lines of: You assume God to deny him, therefore you believe in him.
My initial reaction was that this was the stupidest thing I had ever heard. But i'm not exactly sure what he meant by this.
Can someone please explain what assuming God means.
In order to say there is no God you must first examine the concept of God and then deny the fact that God does not exist. What your buddy is saying in the examination of God you are acknoweledging God on some level otherwise you would not have taken the time to dismiss Him. I dont know if i completely agree with that. As i examine things all the time just to see if trust/belief in something is warranted.
I contend that if you spend any amount of time outside of the time it takes to descern whether there is or isnt a God, you are guilty of denying God. Because if you do not believe in something it will be dismissed and you will quickly move on. (How much of your life have you spent argueing about Odin, Ra, or Posiden?) It is this "returning to the well" and argueing whether there is water at the bottom of it (even though others pull water from it's depths and drink from it reguraly) that places you in a position to be continually denying God.
Your acknoweledgement comes in the form of the endless arguements and attempts to talk yourself out of belief. For if non belief were absolute there is no arguement. I know true non-believers/atheists. i have them in my family. They do not argue any points of Christianity as they truly believe there is not God and it is pointless to argue anything. (just like if someone were to want to make a case for thor.) You might play along till your curosity has been satasified, but no one would argue beyond that much less spend a life time (ahem,cough minnie) unless he were trying to convince himself/justify his desision to deny belief in God.
What passes as 'atheism' on this board is truly misotheism. The Hate of God. But the reason "atheist" do not accept this title is because they will have to acknoweledge that they do believe in God. (You have to believe in something to hate it.) Few if any have the marbles to own up to their hate. (probably because deep down they do not have complete faith in their "atheism.")
Posts: 6990
Threads: 89
Joined: January 6, 2012
Reputation:
104
RE: Assuming God?
May 30, 2013 at 9:46 am
Theists often mistake the parody of their beliefs for "hate of their god", which they then take to mean "belief in god in order to hate it".
It's quite silly, really. There's no god to hate, at least none with any evidence behind it. But whatever makes them feel warm and tingly inside, I guess.
|
![[Image: 146748944129044_zpsomrzyn3d.gif]](https://images.weserv.nl/?url=i629.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fuu13%2FRXM843%2F146748944129044_zpsomrzyn3d.gif)
