Assuming God?

[ronedee]

Just because one doesn't believe in something doesn't mean said 'something' is thus off limits for debate. As Esquilax points out, he doesn't believe in the Doctor being real either, but does that mean discussions about the finer points of sonic screwdrivers are hence off limits?

I think not.

You actually give a fine and concise example as to why we're here debating various facets of all manner of supposed gods. You call us [atheists] when responding to rationalman "...your ilk", implying an intense disgust with 'atheists' per se (this is an assumption on my part, so please correct me if I've read into the sleight of hand insult incorrectly). Theists (human beings per se) have the ability to affect the reality around us because they inhabit the same reality. I study Sikh NGOs for my PhD. I don't believe in any of the supernatural elements of their religion, but because they utilise government money for their charity and infrastructure projects, that does affect me and indeed all of society. Their use of their religious faith(s) to reinforce their behavior thus means that there is topic that must be debated and critiqued there, and one doesn't need to be a Sikh in order to study it.

The truth is, if theists just stopped trying to foist their religions onto those who don't ascribe to then, then there'd be no issue. We don't hate any gods because, to us, there's nothing to hate. What we do dislike is people using their un-evidenced beliefs to try and force others to accept what they have to say as right, often at the point of a sword.

Most religions teach that those who are external to their religion (The RCC being a prime example, even after the acceptance of inclusivism after Vatican II) are automatically bad, and must either be 'saved' or done away with. I, and many others, object to this stance, on the premise that it is anti-intellectual, and and anti-human. It's a disgusting attitude, based on nothing more than a belief with nothing but 'faith' to back it up.

If there is a god to be found, it will be found entirely with the mind, not the heart, as the heart's only function is to pump blood around our body to oxygenate our cells.

I understand the point of debating any subject. But the subject of [God], rears a rather ugly scene in the case of many "ilk"... I used that word because it was handy, with only leanings toward derogatoriness! And as a side note, I've been called a lot worse than "ilk" here!

I don't see (as a working environment) that the RCC is counting anything as "automatically bad", besides evil itself. And for all its shortcomings the RCC is about it's body, not its worldly head. As a matter of fact..I have never witnessed a condeming of any other religion, (including atheists organizations) put forth by the RCC in any messages to the congregation. All others have constantly bashed the RCC. So, cudos should go to them for staying positive in the spirit of Jesus' Word! For all that's wrong w/ the RCC? We are not blind to that fact....but it is run physically by men. That said, we have more to be happy about, than sad!

And you must be a heartless bastard! LOL...JK....Obviously, you were being facetious? To be totally honest...while searching for the Lord personally, my thoughts were a mess. Only through a sincere soul search in quiet moments was I able to find Him. And my mind is NOW able to process what my soul knew already!

And I'm not only talking justification in my mind because of emotional events! I'm talking rational thoughts and revelations given to me through my faith in the Lord! It' really amazing!! And it's a real pity that higher education, and intelligence in most cases breeds atheism.

But, trying to explain the path to God is like trying to explain a beautiful sunset to a person born blind. And I'm not trying to say that in a demeaning way...its just the only way to explain it. And nothing I say can, or will make sense to you unless we stand on the same ground!

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But...God's Truth won't be denied. The problem with most atheists is that they seek God with there minds instead of their hearts!

Why would I seek god?
I think its a silly, infantile belief that belongs in the past.

You think? What proof do you have?

[Faith No More]

What passes as 'atheism' on this board is truly misotheism.

Evidence? Or are you simply proving my comment about defense mechanisms?

[ronedee]

Something that would be bad advice in nearly any other context suddenly becomes good advice when looking for God? I don't think so. It is the nature of the heart to tell you what you WANT to hear. If what you want to hear happens to be the case, your heart gets the credit. Here's the truth: search for the kingdom of whichever god you were raised to believe in within your heart hard enough, and you will always find it, no matter what the god. Because you can convince yourself of anything, if you try hard enough.

I'm sorry to hear that you've avoided the nature of your own heart.

Because the mind plays tricks on us.....the heart speaks the TRUTH!

[tokutter]

.

But, trying to explain the path to God is like trying to explain a beautiful sunset to a person born blind. And I'm not trying to say that in a demeaning way...its just the only way to explain it. And nothing I say can, or will make sense to you unless we stand on the same ground!

Maybe your explaining the wrong path ronedee.

Try this one.... http://www.mrm.org/no-salvation-without-joseph-smith

In his article entitled "Joseph Smith Among the Prophets" printed in the June 1994 issue of "Ensign" magazine, Mormon writer Robert L. Millet quoted second LDS Prophet Brigham Young, who, in 1859, stated, "From the day that the priesthood was taken from the earth to the winding up things of all things, every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are -- I with you and you with me. I cannot go there without his consent" (Journal of Discourses 7:238. See also Search These Commandments, 1984, pg. 133).

Or maybe all you god believers could get together and narrow it down to one path.........might make it easier......GOOD LUCK

[ronedee]

.

But, trying to explain the path to God is like trying to explain a beautiful sunset to a person born blind. And I'm not trying to say that in a demeaning way...its just the only way to explain it. And nothing I say can, or will make sense to you unless we stand on the same ground!

Maybe your explaining the wrong path ronedee.

Try this one.... http://www.mrm.org/no-salvation-without-joseph-smith

In his article entitled "Joseph Smith Among the Prophets" printed in the June 1994 issue of "Ensign" magazine, Mormon writer Robert L. Millet quoted second LDS Prophet Brigham Young, who, in 1859, stated, "From the day that the priesthood was taken from the earth to the winding up things of all things, every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are -- I with you and you with me. I cannot go there without his consent" (Journal of Discourses 7:238. See also Search These Commandments, 1984, pg. 133).

Or maybe all you god believers could get together and narrow it down to one path.........might make it easier......GOOD LUCK

There is a "path" leading to the "gate"? But how do you explain that to someone in a rudderless boat on the ocean?


This is about as narrow as the gate gets my friend:

"Jesus warned that others would come proclaiming that salvation could be obtained by some other means. He warned that thieves and robbers would come who would claim that salvation can be obtained by "some other way" (John 10:1). He added that only those who enter through the door of the "sheepgate" are truly His own."

[Faith No More]

Because the mind plays tricks on us.....the heart speaks the TRUTH!

The mind definitely plays tricks on us, but the heart simply pumps blood. If you think it's speaking to you, seek help.

[ronedee]

Because the mind plays tricks on us.....the heart speaks the TRUTH!

The mind definitely plays tricks on us, but the heart simply pumps blood. If you think it's speaking to you, seek help.

Spoken like a true lover!

[Faith No More]

A lover of biology, yes.

[Mister Agenda]

And Mister Agenda, its nothing to do with making me feel smarter.

Just teasing, I'm the same way, I think: like you're doing something immoral if you just let illogical statements go unchallenged.

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I'm sorry to hear that you've avoided the nature of your own heart.

More like understand it.

Because the mind plays tricks on us.....the heart speaks the TRUTH!

Both our emotions and intuitions and our rational minds are prone to play tricks on us, just in different ways. We have our rational minds to compensate for the tricks our hearts play on us and science to compensate for the tricks our rational minds play on us.

Note that although I used your language for ease of communication, I don't really differentiate between my heart and mind: it's all mind, and I try not to neglect any of my faculties. I do try to use the right cognitive tool for the right job, though.

[ronedee]

Because the mind plays tricks on us.....the heart speaks the TRUTH!

Both our emotions and intuitions and our rational minds are prone to play tricks on us, just in different ways. We have our rational minds to compensate for the tricks our hearts play on us and science to compensate for the tricks our rational minds play on us.

Note that although I used your language for ease of communication, I don't really differentiate between my heart and mind: it's all mind, and I try not to neglect any of my faculties. I do try to use the right cognitive tool for the right job, though.

ah! So your mind played a trick on you... for a moment!

Thanks for speaking in my language...you are quite a linguist!