Miracles and Anti-supernaturalism

[Cyberman]

What about the church in Ohio which got struck by lightning in a storm and caught fire in 2003 immediately after a travelling evangelist screamed at the thunder: "That's right, God! We hear you!"

Is that a miracle too, or just an ironically unfortunate coincidence?

[pineapplebunnybounce]

@ronedee, even if what you said is real (don't care enough to look it up), how many christians died in the tsunamis and atomic bombs? If we're to do an actual statistical calculation, I doubt you'd get a small p-value. For your argument to even stand, we have to go back through history and look at every single catastrophe and calculate the number of religious people who died and survived, it's unfeasible because you don't know the religions of those who died beyond a doubt. Your entire thing is a prime example of just looking for what you want to look for. It holds no water under analysis.

[Cyberman]

Echoing Maelstrom's point, it's not our fault if your claims can be shown up for the Three Card Trick they are and so easily too. Get better claims.

[Bad Writer]

Believing in miracles makes you gullible.

[Crossless2.0]

What about the church in Ohio which got struck by lightning in a storm and caught fire in 2003 immediately after a travelling evangelist screamed at the thunder: "That's right, God! We hear you!"

Is that a miracle too, or just an ironically unfortunate coincidence?

A miracle obviously! Any good Catholic knows that God is still pissed off about the Reformation.

[ronedee]

And as I said, abandoning actual credible argument in favor of just reinterpreting the motivations of those opposing you is egotistical, childish, and ineffective in the extreme. Now quit having your tantrum and come back with something real.

"Tantrum"? You resemble your own statement^

I told you this wasn't a competition. It was a "miracle". You (and others) have taken it upon yourself to try and discredit me, as a person....because of my lack of stats? Not to mention 10 of you coming from every direction...and each treating me like I have your undivided attention!

I didn't research anything but was in "THAT ARTICLE". You know, the one you, and the others didn't read. But I'm supposed to READ EVERYTHING!

It's pretty obvious what this is all about....

If it's personal persecution lets go in that direction from this point forward. I can fight when I'm being assaulted.. If its an exchange of ideas, concepts and experiences lets do that instead.

But, I won't do both (like you have handily done). I haven't tried to discredit, abuse or assualt anyone here with my pov. I just express it. I don't resort to name calling and swearing, and ridicule...it's not what I want to do.

If I sound "condescending" as I've been wrongly accused of, its because of my enthusiasm. Not because I hate you! Or think I know it all.

But, lets compare that to all the cussing at me...for stating my opinion?

Why?

If [any] of you can't express themseleves w/o shit, then why expect any explanations of anything I put forth? Why not expect the same bullshit back?

I think the scriptural people here are alot better off than myself! I chose to approach atheists from a "common sense" pov. But, everyone here (atheists) fancy themseleves "intellectuals".

And as a common sense person... I've had many experiences with intellectuals who can write 10 page math formulars, but can't change a light bulb. So, the divide is deep.

And now I see there is no common ground from that method.

[downbeatplumb]

I chose to approach atheists from a "common sense" pov.

I must've missed his.

[Mister Agenda]

The paradox is that I have to believe in order to understand, not the other way around.

It may be a paradox, but belief being a requirement to understand is at the foundation of every supernaturalist religion. If you believe Voudoun first, it will quickly start to make sense as well.

Essentially this amounts to 'if you buy my product, then you'll agree it was worth it. How can you say it's not worth it if you didn't buy my product?'

[Esquilax]

"Tantrum"? You resemble your own statement^

I think I've earned my irritation at your deliberate ignoring of the salient points raised against you.

I told you this wasn't a competition. It was a "miracle".

And if you want that to be believed, then provide some evidence that your specific god was involved in a protective act to save those priests, else your claim gets hit with the sharp end of Occam's Razor. Sorry, that's just how rationality works; positive claims get justified, or they get discarded.

You (and others) have taken it upon yourself to try and discredit me, as a person....because of my lack of stats?

Are you... are you kidding me? You're getting persecution, from this? I know I'm guilty of a few ad homs here, though I think you deserve it, but the bulk of my posts, and those of the others disagreeing with you, have been based solely around deconstructing your argument.

Not to mention 10 of you coming from every direction...and each treating me like I have your undivided attention!

And that is why this is a forum, and not a quiet conversation. You do have time to formulate individual responses, you know. It's not a race.

I didn't research anything but was in "THAT ARTICLE". You know, the one you, and the others didn't read. But I'm supposed to READ EVERYTHING!

How do you know we didn't read it? I think what you'll find is that many of us did, but didn't do as you did and take it at face value. We continued to search until we got to the truth of the matter.

It's pretty obvious what this is all about....

Oh, fucking hell...

If it's personal persecution lets go in that direction from this point forward. I can fight when I'm being assaulted.. If its an exchange of ideas, concepts and experiences lets do that instead.

A casual reading of the text of the last few pages reveals it as the latter, though historically you have been all too willing to hit the Persecution Brakes when you don't have an argument.

But, I won't do both (like you have handily done).

So we throw a little vinegar into our arguments. That's called multitasking.

I haven't tried to discredit, abuse or assualt anyone here with my pov. I just express it. I don't resort to name calling and swearing, and ridicule...it's not what I want to do.

Except at the end of every post you've made lately, where you, after failing to address many arguments, come at us with this childish "I'm right and you just don't want to know the truth because you're out to get christianity!" bullshit. It's the lowest of the low, and I have no time for it. Nor does anyone else, I'll wager.

If I sound "condescending" as I've been wrongly accused of, its because of my enthusiasm. Not because I hate you! Or think I know it all.

I believe I said smug.

But, lets compare that to all the cussing at me...for stating my opinion?

Why?

Because you're wrong, and instead of continuing the argument based on our rebuttals, you instead decided to ignore them all until pressed, and instead call us ignorant and unwilling to see the truth.

If [any] of you can't express themseleves w/o shit, then why expect any explanations of anything I put forth? Why not expect the same bullshit back?

Read again. The rough vernacular was only decoration over a couple of very salient points... that you just ignored.

I think the scriptural people here are alot better off than myself! I chose to approach atheists from a "common sense" pov. But, everyone here (atheists) fancy themseleves "intellectuals".

The difference being, of course, that we benighted nonbelievers don't feel any need to be ashamed of acting and saying smart things.

And as a common sense person... I've had many experiences with intellectuals who can write 10 page math formulars, but can't change a light bulb. So, the divide is deep.

And now I see there is no common ground from that method.

So... no argument, again? That's cool. Better get those Persecution Brakes replaced before they wear out, though. Wouldn't want them to fail, so you go careening right into recognition that you're wrong.

[Faith No More]

---

"Tantrum"? You resemble your own statement^

I told you this wasn't a competition. It was a "miracle". You (and others) have taken it upon yourself to try and discredit me, as a person....because of my lack of stats? Not to mention 10 of you coming from every direction...and each treating me like I have your undivided attention!

I didn't research anything but was in "THAT ARTICLE". You know, the one you, and the others didn't read. But I'm supposed to READ EVERYTHING!

It's pretty obvious what this is all about....

If it's personal persecution lets go in that direction from this point forward. I can fight when I'm being assaulted.. If its an exchange of ideas, concepts and experiences lets do that instead.

But, I won't do both (like you have handily done). I haven't tried to discredit, abuse or assualt anyone here with my pov. I just express it. I don't resort to name calling and swearing, and ridicule...it's not what I want to do.

If I sound "condescending" as I've been wrongly accused of, its because of my enthusiasm. Not because I hate you! Or think I know it all.

But, lets compare that to all the cussing at me...for stating my opinion?

Why?

If [any] of you can't express themseleves w/o shit, then why expect any explanations of anything I put forth? Why not expect the same bullshit back?

I think the scriptural people here are alot better off than myself! I chose to approach atheists from a "common sense" pov. But, everyone here (atheists) fancy themseleves "intellectuals".

And as a common sense person... I've had many experiences with intellectuals who can write 10 page math formulars, but can't change a light bulb. So, the divide is deep.

And now I see there is no common ground from that method.

---

I dub thee Sir "Ad Hominem."